Geeks only - Raspberry PI controlled kiln

[MarkTilles]

Thank you I will share this with my friend and we will do a little studying.

[newps]

On 5/8/2021 at 2:42 PM, Bill Kielb said:

...

Anyway, it’s easy to do and helps ensure the right amount of heat work has been done which is important to fully bake the clay and glaze. Unlike our cake, soaking at one temperature does not have the same effect, we use final rate in the last 100c to get a specific amount of heatwork.

Most kilns struggle to do 100c per hour at high temp, so 60c is usual and in the center column. Also going this moderate speed helps even out the firing through the kiln. ...

 

@Bill Kielb,  I really appreciated the explanation and wish I had been given one like that in the past. 

If I understand your explanation correctly if my kiln struggles to do 60C per hour at the high temperatures but can manage 15C per hour should I use 1185 rather than 1222 for a cone 6 firing?

[Bill Kielb]

7 hours ago, newps said:

@Bill Kielb,  I really appreciated the explanation and wish I had been given one like that in the past. 

If I understand your explanation correctly if my kiln struggles to do 60C per hour at the high temperatures but can manage 15C per hour should I use 1185 rather than 1222 for a cone 6 firing?

Yes that option is available in the column on the left. 60c is pretty common though most kilns should be able to do that. The last 100c of your firing is where most of the heatwork is done so to approximate the heatwork or cone with an electronic controller, follow the chart based on what your kiln can do. 

When your kiln struggles to make minimum final rate, things will just tend to overfire because of the excess time it takes and it usually means time for new elements. Most kilns require an element change when the elements have grown in resistance by 10 - 15% from their new value.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Bill Kielb

[giorgiodidon]

hi all, sorry for the question, i cannot start the webserver,  i'd like to see it, i am waiting fot thermocouple interface and ssr to arrive, followed all steps, but it says cannot import config.py (already copyed as config.py from the exampe one) i can see the file in the kiln-controller directory.

thank you

giorgio

[Bill Kielb]

3 hours ago, giorgiodidon said:

hi all, sorry for the question, i cannot start the webserver,  i'd like to see it, i am waiting fot thermocouple interface and ssr to arrive, followed all steps, but it says cannot import config.py (already copyed as config.py from the exampe one) i can see the file in the kiln-controller directory

It’s been several months since this project was complete. You might want to Direct message the ras pi guys above or search the board with the oven control program.

[newps]

Hi all,

I have just done a rebuild of my system, and couldn't get the backup of my older version to run, some issue with permissions, I think because I saved it on a mac and that messed up the permissions.

 I have therefore just done a complete rebuild following all the instructions on GitHub (copy and paste) when I come to reboot the Pi it was not running the kiln- controller , checking daemon.log  I found the code below  suggesting a file is missing.  Should it be part of the Github cloning, or do I need to get it from elsewhere and if so where.

I should point out that I am using a max31856 and s type thermocouple  and have uncommented the appropriate lines - are there some other lines I should comment out?

Would appreciate a quick response as I need to get  bisque and glaze firings done in the next couple of days for a special Christmas present 

Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]: Traceback (most recent call last):
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/kiln-controller.py", line 44, in <module>
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     oven = RealOven()
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/lib/oven.py", line 381, in __init__
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     self.board = Board()
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/lib/oven.py", line 47, in __init__
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     self.create_temp_sensor()
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/lib/oven.py", line 75, in create_temp_sensor
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     self.temp_sensor = TempSensorReal()
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/lib/oven.py", line 107, in __init__
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     from max31855 import MAX31855, MAX31855Error
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:   File "/home/pi/kiln-controller/lib/max31855.py", line 2, in <module>
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]:     import RPi.GPIO as GPIO
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi python[250]: ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'RPi'
Dec 11 14:22:43 raspberrypi systemd[504]: Queued start job for default target Main User Target.
Dec 11 14:22:52 raspberrypi systemd[504]: Created slice User Application Slice.
 

 

[Hulk]

You'll need that gpio instance, no doubt.
Glancing at volume o' discussion on " ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'RPi' " (via simple query) - my guess would be permissions, aye, perhaps where the user/account the program is running under doesn't have the required permissions; do you have a sudo command in thar at all (and observing proper/required case, note Case Sensitivity) *?

My reason for posting, however, was to suggest manual firing as an alternative - my kiln has three switches (one for each zone/level), with options off, low, medium, high. I run the kiln up to about 200F the night afore, then set "High" on all three the day of, both bisque and glaze fire.
From there, I twiddle the switches to get my holds in, which is a bit of trouble, but not too bad.

* sudo allows a permitted user to execute a command as the superuser or another user, a specified by the security policy.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Hulk
note on sudo

[newps]

Having looked at the discussions on " ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'RPi' " and some of the solutions I have followed the suggestions for ensuring it is installed, and also tried the code looking for rpi rather than RPi to no avail.

I may have to resort to the manual firing, but even for a manual firing the kiln-controller software was good for remotely monitoring the temperature - the old manual controller is very crude  and does not show the current temperature 

[newps]

Just had  some feedback about this

Suggested that I look at  https://github.com/jbruce12000/kiln-controller/issues/55

lt appears that RPi.Gpio has been depreciated, and there will be a new library at some time that will require major changes to the  code. 

One of the suggestions in the article is ".... until that happens you should use something like a raspberry 3 with older code, I.e. buster."

And it appears that that solved their problem - hope it will solve mine

[Hulk]

"...the old manual controller is very crude  and does not show the current temperature"

Aye.
I use an inexpensive pyrometer setup for feedback, and pyrometric cones to verify.
Since developing some trust in the pyrometer, I've stopped looking at the cones whilst firing - I'm just checking them out afterward. However, I've gone back to setting a target where it can be seen from the peep, just in case the pyrometer goes pfftt...

Edited December 12, 2021 by Hulk
oops

[High Bridge Pottery]

So you have tried installing both python 2 and python 3 versions? Looks to me like you are just missing the right version to use with python 3.

sudo apt-get install python-rpi.gpio python3-rpi.gpio

[newps]

9 hours ago, High Bridge Pottery said:

So you have tried installing both python 2 and python 3 versions? Looks to me like you are just missing the right version to use with python 3.

sudo apt-get install python-rpi.gpio python3-rpi.gpio

prior to this rebuild i only had the python 3  version and that worked (python 3.7) the rebuild with Bullseye is Python 3.9.

I have gone back to the legacy Raspberry Pi OS (Buster) and now have my system back up and running. It appears that it was an issue with a gmail account on the Pi that caused everything to crash. Its currently an older version of kiln-controller that I am using.

Thanks for everyones help and comments.

Now to get organised for a firing 

[High Bridge Pottery]

Been a while since I dabbled with my Raspberry Pi 2B so I dunno about the new OS but it still just looks like a missing install so should be easy to fix.

Talking about legacy software the machines I print on still use floppy disk and the screens look like teletext

[MarkTilles]

I just want to share that through my friend Marko (who  is a real programmer) and I have finally uploaded the code to add scheduled firings into Jason’s project. Hopefully this can soon get tested and implemented, then we will continue on to add some of my other improvements that I feel I would like to share with the group.

[rondoc]

I am trying to set up the Raspberry pi control and have installed software as per the github info. How do I get to see a display now .. any help please.. I am an old EE so probably missed something .  I am using a Raspberry pi 3 B. with a Adafruit 3263 thermocouple board.  thank you. ronald. 

[newps]

Hi,

the Adafruit 3263 uses the Max31856 chip,  which in their infinite wisdom Adafruit have deprecated the Adafruit_GPIO software module, to introduce their Blinka software  module. That would require quite a large rewrite of the code. see this link https://github.com/jbruce12000/kiln-controller/issues/55 

I have been using the same Adafruit chip for a while and used an earlier version of this program, but I had to find my own  software module for the Max 31856.  I recently tried upgrading to the newest version of the RPi OS and of the kiln software and it wouldn't run.  No error messages or anything on the screen when I tried to connect to the Pi. I am using one of the early Pi  model B (GPIO pinouts are slightly different)

I have gone back to the Buster version of RPiOS  and my old code and it appears to be working. 

 

[rondoc]

On 11/28/2018 at 12:13 PM, jbruce said:

I got tired with going down to the basement to make sure my kiln was working properly and running on schedule so I started (forked) a project to control my KS-1018 using a raspberry pi. With this I can:

• monitor my kiln from anywhere using any device that has a web browser (phone/tablet/computer)
• easily create new schedules, edit existing schedules, including infinite ramps & soaks
• accurate PID control
• get schedule cost estimates and actuals

If anyone is interested, here is the github link... https://github.com/jbruce12000/kiln-controller

The cost for everything I bought was under $200.00, but my time investment has been high.  Again, this is for geeks that were born with a soldering iron in one hand.

Great job. It works fine on local ras.pi but how do I get to use it remotely...I have tried everything I know but nothing works for me. I am not a coder an old EE...HELP!!

[newps]

I assume that when you say it works fine on local ras.pi you mean that you can control it from a keyboard, mouse and screen attached to the actual RasPi.

To work remotely you need to know the local IP address of the Pi . 

Heres how to do that

If you have a Raspberry Pi OS with Desktop installed on your Pi, you can easily find your Pi's IP address by hovering your mouse over the network icon (two arrows) in the top-right corner, next to the clock. An information panel will appear showing your Raspberry Pi's network connections. 

Mine is on a ethernet link and comes up with  eth0: configured 192.168.0.199

To remotely access the pi from a web browser on another computer/phone/tablet the other device must be on the same network as the Pi and you just type i the appropriate local IP address into the browsers address bar. So in my case i put in http://192.168.0.199:8081 and it comes back with http://192.168.0.199:8081/picoreflow/index.html in the address and the display below.

[rondoc]

55 minutes ago, newps said:

I assume that when you say it works fine on local ras.pi you mean that you can control it from a keyboard, mouse and screen attached to the actual RasPi.

To work remotely you need to know the local IP address of the Pi . 

Heres how to do that

If you have a Raspberry Pi OS with Desktop installed on your Pi, you can easily find your Pi's IP address by hovering your mouse over the network icon (two arrows) in the top-right corner, next to the clock. An information panel will appear showing your Raspberry Pi's network connections. 

Mine is on a ethernet link and comes up with  eth0: configured 192.168.0.199

To remotely access the pi from a web browser on another computer/phone/tablet the other device must be on the same network as the Pi and you just type i the appropriate local IP address into the browsers address bar. So in my case i put in http://192.168.0.199:8081 and it comes back with http://192.168.0.199:8081/picoreflow/index.html in the address and the display below.

 

[rondoc]

Thanks. I will try that. I just kept entering the ip not realizing I needed to add the 8081. I feel really stupid not to have tried that.. I'll report back soon.

Thanks.

[rondoc]

6 minutes ago, rondoc said:

 

So simple...yes it worked from my cell phone....now I can get on with pottery... thanks so so much.

[newps]

Don't know why I used the :8081 to start with,  possibly just because I saw it in

"Client Access

Click http://127.0.0.1:8081 for local development or the IP of your PI and the port defined in config.py (default 8081)."

It would appear that you could choose another value if you wanted.

Let us know how you get on with the Adafruit 3263 (MAX31856) on the current code as I would like to update to the newer  version .

What type of thermocouple are you using?

[MarkTilles]

4 hours ago, newps said:

Don't know why I used the :8081 to start with,  possibly just because I saw it in

"Client Access

Click http://127.0.0.1:8081 for local development or the IP of your PI and the port defined in config.py (default 8081)."

It would appear that you could choose another value if you wanted.

Let us know how you get on with the Adafruit 3263 (MAX31856) on the current code as I would like to update to the newer  version .

What type of thermocouple are you using?

Newsps, i’ve been using the max 31856 for a good year ever since Jason Bruce helped me with the coding. Works great for me, I’m using S thermocouples with both ovens I have connected to my system. I bought the adafruit max31856 card from a reseller here in Europe

[rondoc]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:28 AM, newps said:

Hi,

the Adafruit 3263 uses the Max31856 chip,  which in their infinite wisdom Adafruit have deprecated the Adafruit_GPIO software module, to introduce their Blinka software  module. That would require quite a large rewrite of the code. see this link https://github.com/jbruce12000/kiln-controller/issues/55 

I have been using the same Adafruit chip for a while and used an earlier version of this program, but I had to find my own  software module for the Max 31856.  I recently tried upgrading to the newest version of the RPi OS and of the kiln software and it wouldn't run.  No error messages or anything on the screen when I tried to connect to the Pi. I am using one of the early Pi  model B (GPIO pinouts are slightly different)

I have gone back to the Buster version of RPiOS  and my old code and it appears to be working. 

 

I did have the temperature reading correctly but now it's way I'm using the adafruit 86 breakout board and using the 3.3 volt input..  I noticed that even when it was working if the thermocouple is disconnected the reading jumps to 32 and then when reconnected it just stays at 32.  I don't have another 86 board to try but have ordered one to see of problem with board , the pi model 3B or the software...thoughts on this anyone?

[rondoc]

Way off like real temp 80 readout can be 140 ..it behaves as though the sensitivity to temp is much higher. The reading does not jump about just is wrong. I have a Fluke digital thermometer on same thermocouple for checking.