Bill Kielb

Pretty sure that’s the Arcles. Will sketch something up later, see if you agree.

No, the 14-30 plug fits the bill, no special heating requirements. Can you check the temperature rating of the existing cable before we say reusing. It might not be appropriate these days as well. Scratch that Neil already answered. If it’s below 90c then it’s likely time to decide. Just FYI most connections are designed at 75 c these days which usually governs the lowest acceptable. In other words lots of levels of safety intentionally put into things to make sure they don’t overheat.

Neil’s got a great point about the switch. If you can clear away some of the dust from the top of the switch and get a picture. My original thought is it was the Gottak, but looking closer, maybe the ark less. This will help a whole bunch with making a functional drawing that you can verify before we create a draft conversion drawing.

It does resemble the gottak switch. here is a resource i drummed up from somewhere you may find useful. Would not hurt to confirm the lettering next to the top connections though.

Not very neatly done actually. Only the green wire from the power cord will go there and there is an easy way to make this much neater and easy to do.

Give me some time to edit the pictures, Mark is correct what looked like lamp cord is not so……that is good, one less thing to fix. The power cord appears adequate as the ground is just trimmed back so it appears it can be reused. My suggestions will include the removal of all the wiring to the receptacle at the top of the control box. IMO, it’s useless at this point unless you plan on buying a 40 year old extension ring, and it creates a bit of mess. Besides you will get some decent unused high temp wire to work with. Hopefully I can detail some suggestions and others will either agree or may see it differently. Regardless, you will have a path to pursue or something to show your tech with respect to the suggestions.

Just to add, I see the tag above - missed it the first go around. 3600 W old 120/240 3 wire designation which is no longer allowed. Now 120/240, 4 wire. The branch circuit It will need its own circuit, a new 2 pole 20 amp breaker, a neutral, a designated ground and a suitable 4 prong plug wired with #12 copper or larger depending on distance from the panel.

Just a quick observation Yes I would say this is wrong and that plug contained two hot legs L1 & L2 and a neutral but is missing a ground. While hard to be entirely sure from the picture, here are a few things I notice. 1. Ordinary wire nut, looks like it began to melt at one point. Install high temp or at least new (all locations) and relocate as far away from the shell as possible and as far towards the bottom of the cabinet, where it is always reasonably cool. 2. This really looks like lamp cord,, so whatever it leads to needs to use the appropriate wire with approved wiring practices. No lamp cord! 3. This ground screws is much rustier than the adjacent screw. The accelerated corrosion is indicative of small amounts of electric flow. Rust is actually a movement of electrons. In its early days bonding the neutral as a ground was acceptable in some appliances, eventually this was forbidden as it can create a shock hazard. Anyway, we will need a picture of the low, med, high switch (back side) but just from what I can see, the wiring needs to be reviewed and the deficiencies repaired before operating this. Its actually not uncommon to find some of this in old kilns so not hard to repair. Just from what we seem to know at this point, this kiln needs the internal wiring reviewed and updated, a four pole plug with a separate ground and appropriate cord. The existing cord likely is four wire so you may be able to use it by cutting back and getting all four wires, then the appropriate cord end, matching receptacle and of course branch wiring to include a neutral and ground. Proper TLC likely puts this in good order. Prior to that, I suggest don’t plug it in till the deficiencies have been addressed. To start, more pictures of the wiring, from a slight distance (contextual) will make this easier to understand. Super zoomed in pictures probably not as useful unless we are looking specifically at a connection. Please take a picture of the equipment tag which will include model, voltage, wattage etc… it’s really hard to speculate without it.

Hmmm, we just went through this, I believe this is a 4 wire kiln so that plug does not entirely make sense. What is stamped on the kiln tag. It should say voltage, amperage, wattage, etc……. Maybe post a quick picture of the equipment tag and cord / plug.

You need something to turn the kiln off when it reaches temperature. A sitter and safety timer does that, a pyrometer only measures temperature not heatwork. An electronic control could be used which is likely a $600.00 -$ 800.00 minimum investment or at least install a new sitter. No control can be an issue, no one these days is going to sit and manually shut the kiln off in 8 - 12 hours when the cone in the site port bends. I am not sure the other kiln is the greatest deal either.

Yes it can. You may also just buy a new cord end if the cord is fine but just needs the plug part replaced.

You are in Florida so What initially strikes me is a fan blowing out is effective and entirely doable ……… and likely necessary to remove the heat. Don’t blow air in as it will pressurize the space ever so slightly which will then find its way into the home. So in the near term I think being judicious, very doable with a decent box fan and eventually if all is good then contemplate installing a hood for the kiln and separate fresh air inlet in a window or garage wall so you won’t need the door open always. There are issues to plan around that we can’t know, like is your hot water heater in the garage and is it gas? If so, reasonable care needs to be used when you go with a full exhaust system so as not to suck the fumes back down the flue. Easy to design around, and not much of a concern with the doors open and the box fan but once an exhaust is put in then reasonable practical design thought needs to go into it. I actually did this for a friend in the Orlando area and we used a wall shutter fan in the wall behind the kiln and a fresh air inlet on the opposite wall to cross ventilate. In his case we needed about 600 cfm with 85 degree outdoor temps to remove all the heat so he installed an automatic variable speed 20” shutter fan, digital so it has its own thermostat and speed control and was under 300.00. He tries to run his kiln so that at peak kiln temp, it’s reasonably cool outside. It has worked well for him. To remove all or most of the heat you will need 400 - 600 cfm, not much way around this. Anyway lots of ways to do this, safely if thought out and the simple box fan gets you a start. You never know you might want to move it out onto the patio if covered and screened. In my experience a number of ways to do this effectively. As far as clearance, reasonable distance from combustibles, 12-16” usually is fine. Your garage walls are likely drywall or real stucco / block. Just common sense, no flammables, open gas cans etc…..

13 gauge should be heavier than 14, I would think they would last as long or longer unless the spacing becomes an issue. I would not have an issue with it other than it might cost you more. Did he specifically say it won’t last as long ?

Me too, section 240.4 does not apply to # 8 or greater. Now you can use the wire amp chart with corresponding temperature with one twist, most connections are rated 75c so that ends up as your limit. Things change, doggone it!

I should look at my amp table, but #10 thhn 90c I think fills the bill if my memory is right at 40 amps. I do like heavier is better though, #8 definitely helps with less voltage drop. ***Just looked, I think you are right under 240(D) regardless of temp 30 amp is still the max on #10 as a small conductor breaker size limit, after that 240(d) is silent. #8 it should be ……. if the 2020 240(d) is still current. Nice catch! Not sure in Florida though, his electrician is coming so that should work itself out.

Highly recommended free resource (love Sue for that) https://suemcleodceramics.com/how-to-calibrate-your-kiln-sitter-for-accurate-firings/ I suggest downloading and keep it for future reference. It’s very complete and well done IMO. LOOK AT THAT OLD ANALOG PYROMETER!!!!!! very cool and by design if it has not been jostled a bunch might still be fairly accurate. The thermocouple acts as a battery to drive the meter so if mechanically sound, probably reasonably accurate. WOW!

The label shows 25 amps 1P (single phase) so the kiln is 25 X 240v = 6000 Watts. Generally by code Breaker size minimum = 125% of rated load => 1.25 x 25 = 31.25 Amps, so no a 30 amp will not work Max size breaker = 150% of rated load => 1.5 x 25 = 37.5 amps Breaker required for this kiln as rated would be a 35 Amp 2 pole breaker It is strongly suggested to have your electrician pull / run the appropriate wire which ought to be # 10 copper (90c) or for the less voltage drop (and if running non metallic cable) #8 copper (90c) and terminate with an appropriate plug and receptacle or disconnect switch. As long as the replacement elements match the resistance of the original elements then the information above should apply. Some other thoughts This is a sitter kiln with a safety timer and it appears two infinite switches to be manually ramped up for a desired schedule. It’s definitely not hard, do you have any experience in this regard? The kiln fires to cone 9 which if used for cone 6 firings will give reasonable element life. Not sure what rusty nails are, so maybe post some clear pics of the wiring, interior of the kiln and the infinite switch knobs and folks will have more observations. So hopefully that is a start.

It’s an interesting question as teachers have styles and coaches as well. The line between fundamentals and my preference to apply a fundamental in a certain way definitely exists. Interestingly a portion of clay are manual dexterous skills to which individual kinesiology ought to have a significant influence. When I taught, I wanted to make sure my students had fundamental engineering skills, but after that, I would say go out and learn more, apply and develop your skills for when we meet next, I hope to hear you say, look at what I can do now or look at what I found out! Fortunately that has happened enough to me over 30 plus years. Is that teaching? Coaching? Maybe just encouraging.folks to be the best they want to be. It works for me, but by no means is “the” style. Elite athletes often need to fine tune their abilities, maximize their positives and minimize their negatives. Sometimes an outside set of eyes helps understand where to improve as feel and real often differ. Back to the question, I have had good formal instruction, good coaching, mostly informal actually and of course average instruction and “bad coaching”. When I was in High School they would allow a pitcher to throw his arm off his shoulder……… and a rotator cuff later, I did. Bad coach? Just not as knowledgeable as today I think. But for the purpose of the question - bad coaching. For me I like watching what others can do and observe how and why they are successful then try and incorporate into my motion, approach, etc… For me I have always had to figure out for myself what works best for me applying some fundamental and if lucky, discover the reason why it really works for me. My idea of coaching changed after becoming certified as a trainer for a time. The study of kinesiology enlightened my views on how folks could achieve certain movements effectively for themselves but maybe comparatively differently. Moe Norman, very famous Canadian golfer premier ball striker may have been quirky for some, but his advice always rings clear whenever I listen to him. Folks wanted to know his secret, but I believe he really felt that everyone should figure out their secrets. They should focus and practice what works for them. Moe was just amazingly focused on him so he would exclaim just practice the right things! Don’t waste your time practicing someone else’s method, etc…. just practice what works for you …… simple! Today’s most efficient way may end up as tomorrow’s outdated way. Having said all that, I was certainly guilty of saying run as fast as you can to get to the spot where that pop fly is gonna be. Holding your hands up flailing and running backwards probably ain’t gonna do it. Today I would add, if you find a quicker way, show the rest of the team. I must be evolving as a coach.

This is interesting as shivering has a bit of energy in it usually and folks say it pops off their pots. Your description is as if it flakes off so I wondered is this clay fully fired? Looking at continentals site, this clay likely fires to cone 4. It is listed as 04-4. Firing it only to cone 04 may leave it very soft and the glaze easily falls off because of the mismatch. I would call continental and ask, does this need to be fired to cone 4 to be reasonably sturdy? Judging from the shrinkage chart, I would expect the red to be worse than the white. Neither are great though.

Post a picture here if you can. I believe you need the old high limit temperature station. Have you called Alpine or your local kiln tech? It’s not necessarily a job for those who are unfamiliar with gas safety.

Change the timers / contactor arrangement out for a second infinite switch was the best one I think we advocated here and someone reasonably skilled executed it. Makes the kiln truly old school, fairly economical and definitely controllable. At least one of the timers are extinct and ridiculously expensive to replace. Someone here did it once successfully as I recall.

I think she has the single knob infinite switch which controls just the top elements. The auto / manual switch controls the bottom elements and cycles for two hours then goes to constant on in auto mode. Anyway, that’s the premise of her stuff which seems correct at this point. I really despise the creation of this kiln though, it confuses so many.

So empty I am guessing with the top switch off and only the bottom elements on you can get to some cone in five hours, but just turning the top switch to 10:00 reduces firing time a bunch. That would indicate the top switch is not ideal for sure so the calibration technique is below. Neil is correct as manual kilns are fine, and actually a five hour glaze firing is not really the end of the world quick. And actually if this has all been in an empty kiln thus far it will go up considerably as the kiln is filled. Beyond that to extend bisque firings you could always prop the lid an inch or two for the first couple hours as was customary back in the day. Calibrating is not for everyone and if the switch is very far out, replacement is the only recourse as calibration has its limits. For now, propping the lid for the first couple hours then minimal top element may be more than adequate for regular firings.

So the slowest this thing will go is the switch set on auto and the top element switch in the off position. The bottom elements will cycle on the timer(s) until after two hours they will go to full on and stay on till the end of firing. Meanwhile starting with the top switch off (knob arrow pointing up to 12:00) and turning counterclockwise at the end of the two hours will be as slow as it can reasonably go. If that all works, then there is a procedure to calibrate the top switch which may reveal if it is just out of calibration or needs to be replaced.

Do you have an automatic / manual switch? If yes, in the manual mode the bottom elements will be on. In the auto mode the bottom elements will cycle on the built in interval timers. If the interval timers have failed closed then the bottom elements will stay on all the time. Question, in auto mode do the bottom elements cycle on and off?