Duncan Premium Gold & Bright Gold

[kennedy james]

I'm a real beginner at ceramic and I'd like to use gold luster for a piece.

 

but I'm not sure which gold from Duncan to use, my ceramic shop has no tile samples of it so I can't really tell the difference between bright and prenium gold.

 

I was wondering if someone had experience using both here and which one you would recommend.

 

also if you happen to have pictures I would really appreciate seeing them!

 

KJ

[Guest JBaymore]

I've tested the bright and premium from them in the past.  The premium has a higher gold content.... more durable and a tad less "bright". 

 

Personally I like less "shine". Hence the use of the burnish gold.  (It is hard to find other than from majore ceramics dinnerware manufacturers.   I got exposed to burnish gold many, many years ago when I was doing glaze development consulting for a major archetectural ceramics company. (  http://www.sherlewagner.com/product/hand-decorated-ridge-oe11-basin-oe11-25gp-pl/?f=  )

 

I am currently using a burnish gold material from a commercial level supplier...... very high gold content.  But very expensive and a huge minimum purchase.

 

Personally I'd go for the Premium.  "You get what you pay for." 

 

 

Here's the burnish lustre: 

http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/gallery/image/1773-nuka-glazed-chaire-with-burnish-gold-lustre-accents-and-porcelain-lid/

 

http://www.teachat.com/download/file.php?id=6461

 

best,

 

 

........................john

[mregecko]

John....

 

That second piece you linked is absolutely stunning. I've been working a lot with crawling glazes lately, and have also been interested in working with lusters.

 

Never would I have thought to do that.

 

Is it your piece? If so, and you don't mind, I would love and be honored to try to recreate it on some lamp forms that I've been working on.

[kennedy james]

thanks for your reply John!

[Guest JBaymore]

mregecko,

 

Yup, it is one of mine.  That particular Chawan is in the permement collection of the Yixing Ceramic Museum in Yixing, People's Republic of China.  I gave it tthe title "Mother Lode", since I was playing with the idea of the black and gold seams veining in quartz rocks in gold ore rocks.  The burnish gold works much better than bright gold for this effect.  Bright is too garish for my tastes.

 

This bowl frames matcha very well.  It has a generally wab-sabii type aesthetic.... with a l little "bling" thrown in.  The use of the gold could be said to gently allude to the Golden Tea Rooms of Hideyoshi around the time of the Great Kitano Tea Gathering...... a thought I also had in its use.

 

To my knowledge, I am the first one to use this particular technique of glaze application and combination (It is not as easy as it looks).  You are more than welcome to play with the idea.  Just please tend to give the origins a bit of credit from time to time  .

 

best,

 

...................john

[mregecko]

Absolutely -- I have some ideas on how to do it, but am excited to experiment. Don't spoil anything for me, I want to figure it out on my own! ;-)

 

I doubt I could ever get the exact effect, but even something similar would be quite beautiful. If I end up with any results, you will be the first I share with.

 

Cheers!

[Guest JBaymore]

Norm,

 

I'm currently using the Johnson Matthey products....20%.  Minimum order is on the order of a couple of grand US.

 

Yes... it is "fragile".  On chawan .... which are treated like "royalty" anyway..... not an issue.

 

I love that the are still "mysteries" in ceramics.  There is one process that use at one location in Japan that I know works.... but all of my technical bacground does not give me a clue as to why.  I can;t explain it.  It just does.  Love it!

 

best,

 

...............john

[PeterH]

Norm Stuart,

Do you, or does anyone else know what the "gold colored" compound is on the top of manganese saturation glazes?

 

I wish I did, I've been wondering for 40+yrs.

 

Looking up copper/manganese mixed oxides shows that they cover a vast range of compositions, not just sticking

to integer numbers in the formula. They are used as catalysts and have have the corresponding complex redox

behaviours. Nobody mentions colours though.

 

I've even wondered if it's as simple as the manganese reducing the copper to the metal (well bronze really) on

the cooling cycle. There seems to be a large excess of manganese in the recipes.

 

Regards, Peter

 

A few recipes and pics for context http://www.kazegamas.com/Golds-C5.htm

... usual health warning about manganese fumes

 

[sunrise]

Hi,

I've been making my lustres for a couple years now and ready to tackle the gold leaf too.

 

I came across this page a few months ago when looking for a diy size for gold leaf.  I use orange glake shellac to create a resist on my porcelain so it may work for you.  http://www.gold-vault.com/gold_size_or_adhesive.html

 

In "the Craft and Art of Clay" Greg uses pine resin melted with lavender as a medium as glues cause scumming.  

 

Also, if you are making your own lustres, bismuth acts as a flux and helps the gold from rubbing off after firing.  

 

Another technique could be sending your work out for the gold, re: Trudy Golley's pdf

 

 http://www.alluvium.ca/Essays/CM_AllThatGlisters.pdf

 

Hope this helped.  

[Norm Stuart]

I think a lot of commercial ware has to be made using Metal Vapor Deposition in a vacuum like Canadian artist Trudy Golley outlines in her article. 

 

Thanks so much for sharing this.  It seems obvious in retrospect.  It's how mylar is aluminized for tinsel and emergency blankets.

 

Hardly a surprise that Golley learned how to do this in the ceramic village of Jingdezhen.  I'm beginning to find that village annoying - what haven't they perfected there?  Am I going to have to move there to satisfy my vexation end envy?

 

Titanium and Chrome are certainly less expensive and more durable than gold.  That's probably most of the gold coating on the gilded KaDeWe teapots.  We saw some beautiful gold lustered serving trays in Neuschwanstein Germany which had worn off in laces with wear - a tragic decline in the quality of a priceless piece. Sputtering could have prevented that.  The small kiln portion of the vacuum chamber is hot enough to vaporize the metal, but the remainder of the chamber remain much cooler including the ware. The vaporized metal doesn't give off it's heat of condensation until it hit the ware of the walls, making a far higher temperature interface bond than can be achieve with gilding.  Semiconductor technology applied to art ceramics.

 

In the US and Canada there are a lot of work safety requirements for using a vacuum vapor deposition like this one.

 

The downside of using shellac or other sizing to attach gold leaf is it's like painting acrylic onto a fired ceramic - it's now a multi-media piece.  If you fire the ceramic again the sizing combusts throwing the gold blow off of the ware.  The best I've been able to do with gold or platinum leaf is use gravity to your benefit.  Fire too hot and gold becomes merely pink while platinum becomes a rainbow-like mother of pearl.  But just right with a compatible glaze and it's amazing.

 

Bismuth has always been assumed to be a flux in the commercial gilding mix of bismuth, gold, rhodium and other metals like cobalt and vanadium, but studies in the very costly book "Gold" suggests it's probably more complex than that.  Is there any part of ceramics which is not more complex than initially supposed?   The more I know, the farther away from understanding I realize I am.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=8caeFTHlLLYC&pg=PA343&lpg=PA343&dq=burnish+gold+luster&source=bl&ots=tXkAXn7TGv&sig=PVNghr7UjF__-pNxGVGV-lLvLKs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V42CUreeO-aYiAKR1oHwCQ&ved=0CIIBEOgBMA4#v=onepage&q=burnish%20gold%20luster&f=false

 

Hi,

I've been making my lustres for a couple years now and ready to tackle the gold leaf too.

 

I came across this page a few months ago when looking for a diy size for gold leaf.  I use orange glake shellac to create a resist on my porcelain so it may work for you.  http://www.gold-vault.com/gold_size_or_adhesive.html

 

In "the Craft and Art of Clay" Greg uses pine resin melted with lavender as a medium as glues cause scumming.  

 

Also, if you are making your own lustres, bismuth acts as a flux and helps the gold from rubbing off after firing.  

 

Another technique could be sending your work out for the gold, re: Trudy Golley's pdf

 

 http://www.alluvium.ca/Essays/CM_AllThatGlisters.pdf

 

Hope this helped.  

[plumcreative]

Can someone tell be a schedule to fire bright gold luster as fast as possible. The test I did took over 20 hours. It came out great but I read that some people do it much faster— like 4 hours.  I am guessing that part of my problem is that I am firing one small piece in a 6 cu ft kiln so it takes longer to heat up but I have to leave at 10 am tomorrow to go to destination wedding and I am making the cake topper.  (Note: I am one of the worst procrastinators in the world).  

I did my firing to cone 018. 110F to 1267F, 5min hold, then 9999 to 80.

I am wondering if it will help to not run the fan during the first part of the temperature rise and only run it during cooling. 

Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Cheers, Amy

[Bill Kielb]

I think this was Duncan fired in three to four hours I believe. Test kiln though so it will go 600 degrees per hour.

 

[neilestrick]

On 6/13/2019 at 5:24 PM, plumcreative said:

Can someone tell be a schedule to fire bright gold luster as fast as possible. The test I did took over 20 hours. It came out great but I read that some people do it much faster— like 4 hours.  I am guessing that part of my problem is that I am firing one small piece in a 6 cu ft kiln so it takes longer to heat up but I have to leave at 10 am tomorrow to go to destination wedding and I am making the cake topper.  (Note: I am one of the worst procrastinators in the world).  

I did my firing to cone 018. 110F to 1267F, 5min hold, then 9999 to 80.

I am wondering if it will help to not run the fan during the first part of the temperature rise and only run it during cooling. 

Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Cheers, Amy

Even a 6 cu/ft kiln should get up to cone 018 in just a few hours. The problem is that a kiln that size will take longer to cool than a smaller kiln. Did that 20 hours include the cooling segment? Putting that segment in the program isn't necessary. If it's cooling at 9999, that's full speed, cooling at its natural speed. Just take it up to peak temp and let it shut off. Speed up your firing speed. 110F/hr is pretty slow. You can go as fast as your pots will allow without cracking. You also don't need to wait for it to get all the way down to 80F. Open it up at 200. That last 120 degrees could take several hours.