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Cone 5/6 alternative to gloss clear glaze


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#1 annbclay

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:21 PM

I am trying to find a way to bring out the colors of my underglaze decoration without using a clear gloss glaze. I make sculptures and have been spraying on a thin coat of clear over my underglaze work. the colors look great, however I am not very happy with the high gloss finish. I remember years ago seeing some sculptures of fruit by an artist in Kentucky. They had beautiful color and a very slight sheen that was slightly rough to the touch. I think i remember her saying she sprayed on stains that were suspended in a frit solution. I don't recall her name but does anyone have any ideas about how I might accomplish my goal? I work in cone 5/6 porcelain and do a lot of painting and coloring on my sculptures. Much of it resembles watercolor paintings. I need some sort of finish so the colors are not flat but the high gloss of a clear glaze does not really suit the style of my work.

#2 weeble

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:28 AM

Have you checked out Terra sigillata? You can make a base terra sigillata then add Mason Stains, then put it on and buff with a plastic bag and get a very nice satiny sheen that's NOT shiny. Its transparent and you use very thin layers to get a VERY water-color sort of effect.
Posted Image

This is a bunch of buttons I did with terra sigillata - I mixed batches of white terra sig with different mason stains, then sponged on two different colors and buffed them with a plastic grocery bag. I have done larger pieces, you just have to buff before the terra sig dries. You can also get a flat using this stuff by just not buffing. The picture isn't the best, but you can see they have a slight sheen without a real gloss, and no glaze at all!
Maryjane Carlson

Whistling Fish Pottery

#3 OffCenter

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:30 AM

Have you checked out Terra sigillata? You can make a base terra sigillata then add Mason Stains, then put it on and buff with a plastic bag and get a very nice satiny sheen that's NOT shiny. Its transparent and you use very thin layers to get a VERY water-color sort of effect.
Posted Image

This is a bunch of buttons I did with terra sigillata - I mixed batches of white terra sig with different mason stains, then sponged on two different colors and buffed them with a plastic grocery bag. I have done larger pieces, you just have to buff before the terra sig dries. You can also get a flat using this stuff by just not buffing. The picture isn't the best, but you can see they have a slight sheen without a real gloss, and no glaze at all!


What cone are those buttons fired to?

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#4 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:37 AM

[quote name='weeble' date='01 April 2013 - 05:28 AM' timestamp='1364812087' post='31941']
Have you checked out Terra sigillata?

It might work but i actually make watercolor like murals on my pieces. i thin underglaze and make stain washes to paint with. ill test the idea but i think the terra sig will be too thick, will terra sig fire to cone 6 ?

Any other ideas?
Thanks!

#5 bciskepottery

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.

#6 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

I like the soda ash idea, I tried using just plain frit but that did not work at all, just left a thick white residue that doesn't easily come off. Does soda ash melt alone and at the cone 5 temp?

I've thought of sandblasting but that's a bit too much process for me! Thanks



You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.



#7 bciskepottery

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:33 PM

Soda ash melts at 851 C/1564 F. There should be no problem getting a melt at cone 5/6.


I like the soda ash idea, I tried using just plain frit but that did not work at all, just left a thick white residue that doesn't easily come off. Does soda ash melt alone and at the cone 5 temp?

I've thought of sandblasting but that's a bit too much process for me! Thanks




You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.



#8 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

Looking at other posts I saw the perfect term to describe what I want! A sugary reflective surface. I have a couple of ideas any advice on what might work?
If I add soda ash or wood ash to my underglaze as I paint will this work to allow the colors to develop the way they would under a clear glaze and have that sugary effect instead of glossy?
Or
If I spray a water/ ash solution over the painted areas instead of clear glaze ...

I like the soda ash idea, I tried using just plain frit but that did not work at all, just left a thick white residue that doesn't easily come off. Does soda ash melt alone and at the cone 5 temp?

I've thought of sandblasting but that's a bit too much process for me! Thanks




You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.



#9 bciskepottery

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:51 PM

Adding soda ash directly to the underglazes could cause them to run during firing . . . soda ash acts as a flux or melting agent. Best to first try some test tiles to see how the soda ash reacts with each color . . . underglazes may have different compositions and react differently.

Regardless of how you apply, be careful of getting soda ash on any waxed areas (soda ash is also caustic). And don't get any on a dry or unwaxed bottom . . . soda ash could cause the clay to stick to the kiln shelf.

Looking at other posts I saw the perfect term to describe what I want! A sugary reflective surface. I have a couple of ideas any advice on what might work?
If I add soda ash or wood ash to my underglaze as I paint will this work to allow the colors to develop the way they would under a clear glaze and have that sugary effect instead of glossy?
Or
If I spray a water/ ash solution over the painted areas instead of clear glaze ...


I like the soda ash idea, I tried using just plain frit but that did not work at all, just left a thick white residue that doesn't easily come off. Does soda ash melt alone and at the cone 5 temp?

I've thought of sandblasting but that's a bit too much process for me! Thanks




You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.



#10 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

Thanks that is very helpful!, I'd rathern learn this way than the hard way while grinding my kiln shelves.


Adding soda ash directly to the underglazes could cause them to run during firing . . . soda ash acts as a flux or melting agent. Best to first try some test tiles to see how the soda ash reacts with each color . . . underglazes may have different compositions and react differently.

Regardless of how you apply, be careful of getting soda ash on any waxed areas (soda ash is also caustic). And don't get any on a dry or unwaxed bottom . . . soda ash could cause the clay to stick to the kiln shelf.


Looking at other posts I saw the perfect term to describe what I want! A sugary reflective surface. I have a couple of ideas any advice on what might work?
If I add soda ash or wood ash to my underglaze as I paint will this work to allow the colors to develop the way they would under a clear glaze and have that sugary effect instead of glossy?
Or
If I spray a water/ ash solution over the painted areas instead of clear glaze ...


I like the soda ash idea, I tried using just plain frit but that did not work at all, just left a thick white residue that doesn't easily come off. Does soda ash melt alone and at the cone 5 temp?

I've thought of sandblasting but that's a bit too much process for me! Thanks




You could try applying a soda ash wash . . . that will give the underglaze and bare clay body a bit of sheen. Soda ash acts as a flux, so don't overdo the application. Another option would be to sand-blast the glossy clear after firing to remove the gloss.



#11 bigDave

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:11 PM

What about have your tried a matte clear glaze

Ive had good luck with this one,

thin coat is glossy though you have to do a regular thickness to get the matte

http://www.lagunacla...ansand/ms67.php

#12 mregecko

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:18 PM

Try a regular clear gloss, but thin it down a lot. You don't want a coating that is opaque when dry, but mostly transparent.

For most clear glosses at ^5/6 I've seen, this leaves a nice satin finish.

I usually do 1:2 glaze:water, and brush it on very thin.

If you have a sprayer, that's even easier.

#13 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

My fear of a matte clear is opaqueness, I do need to test it though, it could be a solution. I really want a raw or sugary finish, or an appearance similar to encaustic painting. All of these are excellent ideas to test. I hope people will keep making suggestions! I'm Ina testing/ experiment frame of mind... Very rare for me!


What about have your tried a matte clear glaze

Ive had good luck with this one,

thin coat is glossy though you have to do a regular thickness to get the matte

http://www.lagunacla...ansand/ms67.php



#14 weeble

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

The buttons I showed are cone 5 B-mix fired to cone 5. I like to put one color of terra sig on bone dry, with a bit of polishing with a plastic grocery bag. I usually just stick my hand in the bag and rub the button a bit on both sides at the same time, I can't be bothered to fuss TOO much! Then another color on the bisque, same way. The bone dry clay actually takes more terra sig, it rubs off somewhat more on the bisqued, but that's fine by me, it makes things more interesting.

I've also applied the terra sig with a brush, painting it on in a mural style. This stuff really does go on VERY thin, and if you just bisque the piece (I bisque at cone 05) you can get a very high level of sheen, but firing to cone 5 you loose some of the sheen. Terra sig works best at about the consistency of skim milk. I use the cone 5 B-mix to make my base sig, and I'll admit I eyeball it on the consistency and how much mason stain I add. Other clay bodies make different colors, but the B-mix is the best for adding the blues and greens. If your terra sig is too thick, it flakes off in a bad way, but too thin you have to just use more layers. I'm finding using different layers of colors gives you a marvelous stony look, but a single color is rather bland.
Maryjane Carlson

Whistling Fish Pottery

#15 annbclay

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

Ill try that, I admit my spray is semi opaque so perhaps I need to thin it more.

Try a regular clear gloss, but thin it down a lot. You don't want a coating that is opaque when dry, but mostly transparent.

For most clear glosses at ^5/6 I've seen, this leaves a nice satin finish.

I usually do 1:2 glaze:water, and brush it on very thin.

If you have a sprayer, that's even easier.






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