MFP Posted July 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 Thank you very much Bill...especially about the electric...that would not have occurred to me right off the bat....l was only party to one cone 10 electric fire many years ago. But the lid loss makes sense. Yes...I am used to 9 inches of insulator brick....so this 2831 will be an adventure. I plan to place cones all about and I have obtained a pyrometer. I am used to being able to adjust the length of the flame to overcome various problems....from what you describe that technique may be of dubious value. A triangular shaped kiln? Interesting! I think with the six burners I have putting out a smaller volume of gas per burner that I have a better chance of a more even fire than the gentleman struggling with the new 2831. Mine is pretty basic...kiln sitter....that's it. It's interesting that yours is hot in the bottom and cooler in the top....you are right,,,,,kind of counter intuitive. Happy 4th Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallerJMC Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 Hello all, thanks for all input and advice. I am posting a photo of the two tanks I am using. In top left corner you can see the regulator. I does not have a water column reading, it has a fixed output of 29 milibar which is 0,42 PSI, the only low pressure regulator available. Each tank is about 4ft high with a propane gas capacity of 45 kg, that is 23,78 gallons (my previous conversion was wrong). I hope Marie this information is of help. Although I have fired to ^7 (average) I have been able to do two firings with same tank and still some gas in it. Happy firings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 7 hours ago, liambesaw said: My tanks would freeze when they were half empty, maybe in a warmer area you get more out of them before they freeze, but if I switched over every time a tank froze I'd never get anywhere. Keeping them in a pan of water stopped them from freezing at all and allowed me to use an entire tank before switching. Yeh we've all done that. Guess it depends on a lot of things eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 I am sure that although the units of measurement may be different that if it is a standard RV regulator you are all good. Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Ironically, despite all the claims of electric firing being cheaper....if the gallon amounts indicated are correct, it will only cost $36-45 to fire the big 2831 beast. The little 18 series electric will probably cost me more with the electric rates in this area, unless these fires take a whole less time than I think they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Hi Babs! Happy 4th! Was it warm water or just room temp water please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, MFP said: Ironically, despite all the claims of electric firing being cheaper....if the gallon amounts indicated are correct, it will only cost $36-45 to fire the big 2831 beast. The little 18 series electric will probably cost me more with the electric rates in this area, unless these fires take a whole less time than I think they do. Cost me 30 dollars of propane (30lbs) to fire my 20x20x20 inch fiber kiln to cone 6, costs me 7 dollars to fire my 18x23 inch electric to fire to cone 6. YMMV, but propane is the most expensive fuel I found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 32 minutes ago, liambesaw said: Cost me 30 dollars of propane (30lbs) to fire my 20x20x20 inch fiber kiln to cone 6, costs me 7 dollars to fire my 18x23 inch electric to fire to cone 6. YMMV, but propane is the most expensive fuel I found Electricity for some reason is high over here. You are lucky to be in WA. Will let you know but bet it costs $40-50 to fire that little 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 4 hours ago, TallerJMC said: Hello all, thanks for all input and advice. I am posting a photo of the two tanks I am using. In top left corner you can see the regulator. I does not have a water column reading, it has a fixed output of 29 milibar which is 0,42 PSI, the only low pressure regulator available. Each tank is about 4ft high with a propane gas capacity of 45 kg, that is 23,78 gallons (my previous conversion was wrong). I hope Marie this information is of help. Although I have fired to ^7 (average) I have been able to do two firings with same tank and still some gas in it. Happy firings No worries just a tiny bit over 11” (11.64”) . I would make sure the air shutters are all set for a clean burn, fire to 500, then 1000, then 1500 (checking for clean burn and adjusting the air shutters as necessary) slowly per the manual making sure I was clean. Slowing down should even your temperature a bit and you should be able to slightly damper as necessary while staying in oxidation. Using the damper can lower your flame tips a bit so it is a way to move the heat a bit. As always experimentation will make you the master of your kiln.. If you are firing with cones the well known secret is to get your kiln firing about 110 F (43C) per hour in about the last 250F (120C) of the firing and your cone should bend at the published value, kiln should have a chance to even out and your glazes should like it too. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 5:14 PM, MFP said: Thank you very much Bill...especially about the electric...that would not have occurred to me right off the bat....l was only party to one cone 10 electric fire many years ago. But the lid loss makes sense. Yes...I am used to 9 inches of insulator brick....so this 2831 will be an adventure. I plan to place cones all about and I have obtained a pyrometer. I am used to being able to adjust the length of the flame to overcome various problems....from what you describe that technique may be of dubious value. A triangular shaped kiln? Interesting! I think with the six burners I have putting out a smaller volume of gas per burner that I have a better chance of a more even fire than the gentleman struggling with the new 2831. Mine is pretty basic...kiln sitter....that's it. It's interesting that yours is hot in the bottom and cooler in the top....you are right,,,,,kind of counter intuitive. Happy 4th Bill! Happy fourth! Triangle kiln (truncated) and some pics. Hey, it’s hotter on the bottom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Impressive! You have blowers?!?! Very very nice pots! That white matte looks exactly like that white matte I was telling you about--does it have a name?. That copper red is very interesting. The degree of control you all have in your fires is mind boggling. Was that your final loading with the top so open like that? I am thinking the flame gets there and races through making it cooler. I used to use carbide shelves. Heavy beasts...I used to have muscles at the side of my neck like a weightlifter from having to balance a shelf full of pots with those things. My kiln was two shelves deep. I am still trying to figure out how I am going to load the 2831....I am sure not taking it apart like that other fellow did. Maybe once I get the floor shelves in, it won't be so bad. There actually wasn't as much mystery and suspense with firing back in the day that you would think. The glazes were pretty stable, and there weren't a whole lot of them. Once you got to know your kiln, you knew where to put what. We were savages, I know. We did have the wood ash thing going on though...I would shove one inch x 18 inch cedar sticks into my ports during reduction at 5 and again at 9. The wood ash seemed to make the colors brighter. Thank you very much for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Old kiln, new fangled hand built monitor. I’ll get you the recipe for the cone ten white, two versions with and without iron. Old recipes, simple, work fine. The loading in this one was a bit light but finally got the tower in. Shelves are the cheap bonded nitride so pretty light weight and have performed well for 50-60 firings so far. Temperature flips in these kilns where bottom becomes hotter than the top at the end of the firing regardless of loading. Loading definitely affects the temperature distribution though. old firing techniques still fine, monitor just lets people put numbers to the visual and learn a bit more quickly for repeatability. Tomorrow when I go to the studio I will get the recipes and send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Thank you Bill! Still haven't located my damn glaze book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallerJMC Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: No worries just a tiny bit over 11” (11.64”) . I would make sure the air shutters are all set for a clean burn, fire to 500, then 1000, then 1500 (checking for clean burn and adjusting the air shutters as necessary) slowly per the manual making sure I was clean. Slowing down should even your temperature a bit and you should be able to slightly damper as necessary while staying in oxidation. Using the damper can lower your flame tips a bit so it is a way to move the heat a bit. As always experimentation will make you the master of your kiln.. If you are firing with cones the well known secret is to get your kiln firing about 110 F (43C) per hour in about the last 250F (120C) of the firing and your cone should bend at the published value, kiln should have a chance to even out and your glazes should like it too. good luck! Thanks Bill, will have your comments in mind in next firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 I just saw something in the 2831 manual that might be of use.....there is supposed to be an inch opening between the shelves when loading the kiln.....to let the flame through. Didn't know if you were doing that. Thought I would bring it up as it is something I sure didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 21 hours ago, MFP said: Thank you Bill! Still haven't located my damn glaze book. No guarantees (Found1) and adds up to 100 % with colorant (zircopax) but has worked for many years. Says cone 9 but they always fire till 10 is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 11:05 AM, MFP said: Hi Babs! Happy 4th! Was it warm water or just room temp water please? I never put tank in bath, 80kg bottles here, I just poured water over or put a hose on them but really not good practice unless desperate like 3.30a.m. and just want to lie down forever:-)) and no other gas supply. Elecric banket or other lagging may help in cold climates I have no experience with those so I just switched to other tank when I got them in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Elwmwctric blanket not a good idea at all. Forget I wrote that:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Thank you very much Bill! I look forward to trying it. My materials are supposed to arrive Monday....when they will be delivered is another matter. They went all the way from Tacoma to Cleveland last time I looked at the tracker. I finished throwing the cone 6 clay today. I wanted to have two pots per clay. I have the bottom shelf of the bisque loaded with all the test tiles, both 6 and 10. I am having trouble finding a stoneware body I like. I have found several porcelain bodies I like....but have to see how they test...one is a glassy porcelain and may have problems. I am thinking that I would like a cone 10 stoneware body I can also use at 6. Any recommendations you might have would be most appreciated. Both porcelains are cone 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 My plan is to get a 40 gallon tank that Costco has for sale....because Bill pointed out that they don't actually hold 40 gallons. It's squat and would fit in a washtub. So that's my plan. I will fill it with hot water. Hope you had a great 4th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, MFP said: Thank you very much Bill! I look forward to trying it. My materials are supposed to arrive Monday....when they will be delivered is another matter. They went all the way from Tacoma to Cleveland last time I looked at the tracker. I finished throwing the cone 6 clay today. I wanted to have two pots per clay. I have the bottom shelf of the bisque loaded with all the test tiles, both 6 and 10. I am having trouble finding a stoneware body I like. I have found several porcelain bodies I like....but have to see how they test...one is a glassy porcelain and may have problems. I am thinking that I would like a cone 10 stoneware body I can also use at 6. Any recommendations you might have would be most appreciated. Both porcelains are cone 10. Sorry, not a stoneware person. Don’t get me wrong, enjoy many clay bodies but have been throwing porcelain for several years now and am currently hooked on a cone six semi transparent called Frost from Laguna. Also enjoy the cone ten English porcelain from Standard when I need the temperature. Someone here likely has good recs on stoneware bodies. Might have to post it as a new topic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, MFP said: My plan is to get a 40 gallon tank that Costco has for sale....because Bill pointed out that they don't actually hold 40 gallons. It's squat and would fit in a washtub. So that's my plan. I will fill it with hot water. Hope you had a great 4th! Warm, not necessarily scorching hot please. That 25% room in the tank is for safety. If you trip the relief, definitely too hot to start on a full tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Thanks! I am liking the New Zealand porcelain from Clay Art Center.....but it's the glassy one. I am also trying another one called White Rose that is more toothy. I had considered going to porcelain but that would be a change for me. I tried the Amaco #38.....okay but nothing to write home about. I have ordered two cone 10 bodies, one by Laguna and another bu Clay Art Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFP Posted July 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Gotcha! Thanks again for all your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 8 hours ago, MFP said: I am thinking that I would like a cone 10 stoneware body I can also use at 6. Despite what the clay companies say, clay bodies don't work over that wide a range. If it's truly vitrified at cone 10, it will be too loose at 6. If it's vitrified at cone 6, it will be over-fired at 10. You'll have to have a body for each cone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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