Time Study

[glazenerd]

 Most potters know exactly how much in clay/slip, glaze, and firing a piece cost to make. So the question is: how many of you have done time studies? From the time you open the bag of clay, ,forming, trimming, glazing, loading, unloading kilns: do you have in one piece? Perhaps in an informal manner most know or have a general idea. Yet, if you were to keep a log of just one piece, you may be surprised just how long if you count every time you touch it.

 

I am sure many have. No need to respond, just posing the question if you have not.

 

Glaze Nerd

[Mark C.]

You can turn less than 7-9 tons of clay into over 100k of functional items sold in about 10 months and have time to do other things in life
My thought is after counting how many times I handle a piece I would be depressed except I have done that about 35 years ago and that was depressing enough.

One of the things that really pushes my buttons at a show is when customers ask how long it takes for one piece.
I always liked that quote John uses from Hamada
62 years 62 days and 16 hours
I usually answer 41 years and 62 days

I will say that after my 40 years of production I,m faster and handle things less but it still a process and can only be paired down so much.
One last thought for any bean counters out there how do you figure the cost of some glaze materials you bought by the ton 30 years ago for an unremembered price and figure that into your mug piece cost?
Add to that the cost to build the kiln 40 years ago and those tons of spare bricks to mantaine said kiln over the decades
It's like a car talk puzzler question with click and clack
My original thought is some things just are
If you want it easy become a jeweler everything is light and the price is higher and it fits in a briefcase

[MatthewV]

I was an engineer once. In that trade approximating things is a useful skill. So-- does it matter if a glaze uses 2% cobalt? Does a mug with this glaze cost more than one that only uses iron? No.

What about clay? Does it matter if a mug uses 0.75lbs or 1.5 (twice as much!) clay? And the bigger one will even take up more kiln space! No, that really doesn't matter. 

And time? If you counted the time and one took 45 minutes and another too just 30? No.

How much pottery can be made in a week? Did it come out well enough to be worth it? How much was the overall cost of doing business? That is what matters.

 

In my experience, most potters don't have a clue what an item costs to make. The professionals work in larger numbers, the hobby maker either doesn't care or has a really different view from small units/commercial products.

 

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I will also note that I reached the same conclusion as Mark: about 100k/yr is achievable from making work, before expenses.

[alabama]

I've done time studies in the past. Once I sat down to make 6 to 8 large cups in an hour. I laid out a stack of bats, units of clay, and checked the clock, and started. Very quickly the first one was made in 16 minutes...I gave up!

 

On the other hand, I wanted to find out just how fast Indian pottery could be made

and fired. I had read Dean Arnold's Ceramic Analysis and noticed his chart of

primitive potters around the world had different timelines of how long they dried

their pottery before firing. Potters who were planning to use the pots allowed them to dry 1 to 3 days, while potters who sold the pots to tourists allowed their pots to dry up to two weeks. So yes, on a couple of occasions I started with a bag of clay and coiled a medium size bowl (8") and fired it in less than a day. Much less than a day! I was never able to get the bowl made and fired under 2 1/2 hours, but came very close. But in my defense you have to consider the bowl was burnished, had a rolled rim and an incised motif along the shoulder, and those take time.

[GEP]

I think most working potters understand that figuring out time spent "per pot" is too micro to be worth knowing. It might be interesting to know, on a personal enrichment level, for a number cruncher like me. However, on a business level, it makes much more sense to figure out output vs. time/cost on a bigger scale, like "per month" or "per year" or possibly "per order" or "per show."

 

My current time vs. output standard is to produce $5000 worth of work, from pugmill to hang tag, every 17 days.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

I agree that timing individual pieces isn't really a useful metric. Kiln loads is definitely better. Considering your efficiency in terms of number of times you handle a piece, and how much dollar value you get out of a load is better information, at least until you get that question of "how long does it take.." at the shows. ( I tell them it takes a month to finish a kiln load.)

 

I do all my forming and glazing at home, and rent kiln space at my local arts centre. No, it isn't a long term strategy, but it at least got me started.

Packing and transporting 10 cu ft of greenware (plus whatever that works out to in glaze load terms) adds a really annoying amount of time to my production. Add to that the fact that the paying students get priority in the kilns, so that can add a day or two.

This is certainly time that will be pared down as soon as I get my new kiln set up!

[Guest JBaymore]

Discussing "how much time it takes" with a customer in specifics for an object (like 5 minutes to throw, 5 minutes for the handle, 2 minutes of cleanup, etc.) is reducing the item in discussion to simply a "commodity"... like a 1/4" bolt, a car tire, a pound of copper, a bushel of corn, etc.

 

Not where I want to 'market position' my work. 

 

Internally you need to know something about your costs.... but that is not stuff that the public needs to know.

 

best,

 

....................john

[MatthewV]

I think I will simplify my "how long" reply to "I teach classes if you would like to find out".

 

Alabama-- you didn't even include the time spent washing the table, getting the bats and clay ready? Those are all necessary steps to making a piece!

 

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An average professional [American] football game lasts 3 hours and 12 minutes, but if you tally up the time when the ball is actually in play, the action amounts to a mere 11 minutes.

[MikeFaul]

Time and motion studies are very useful in operations research studies supporting large scale manufacturing operations. Here they are used to clean up protocols to squeeze out small costs in individual steps that can be applied across the broader process. In small scale processes they probably cost more to conduct that they will save because there is no larger process to scale them over.

 

Even in our shop, where we employ potters and isolate steps like throwing, handling, engraving, firing, glazing, etc. we are more concerned with macro measures like revenue processed per station per hour than time per pot. We use to watch pots per hour, but now we are moving to revenue for other reasons. This quarter we schedule two glaze firings per week. We just multiple the number of pots in a firing times the average price per pot for our revenue per fire. 

 

For production load planning we take our max firing capacity (glaze) and work backwards through the ceramic process. We could probably push our people to go a lot faster and pay them piece rate to force the issue and all, but have decided for cultural reasons not to do that. We would rather hire career oriented people than churn folks through the production mill. So our standards are lower than most production facilities. And, we have more fun too. The trade off is we don't really know what's fast enough.

[Guest JBaymore]

We could probably push our people to go a lot faster and pay them piece rate to force the issue and all, but have decided for cultural reasons not to do that. We would rather hire career oriented people than churn folks through the production mill. So our standards are lower than most production facilities. And, we have more fun too. The trade off is we don't really know what's fast enough.

 

GOOD for you, Mike!  You are to be applauded for CARING about the overall work environment and "corporate culture" and your employees.  Too few employers do that anymore. (It is all about the "bottom line".) 

 

Your first paragraph nails the "disconnect" in the concept for what it is that 98% of studio potters and small production potteries do.

 

best,

 

..................john

[Dennis Bednarek]

I think the biggest variable is how many pieces your doing at one time.  As an example:

Set Up might take you an hour.

Then the shaping of the piece might take you 20 minutes

Then your talking about clean up for another hour.

Not thinking about the kiln time we jump to grazing

again 1 hour set up

5 minutes to glaze one piece

then again an hour clean up.

 

So for one piece it took you 4 hours and 25 minutes.

But using the same formula 10 pieces would take you 8 hours and 10 minutes.

on a per piece bases that is a difference of 4 hours 25 minutes per single piece or 49 minutes when your doing multiple pieces. 

 

Now if you want to value your time based on the minimum wage your talking $6.00 labor to $33 for a piece.

Then there is the other time spent lining up shows and showing your pieces.  

 

And who want to work for the minimum wage?  

[Mark C.]

Working backwards I glaze 35 cubic feet of pots and load that car kiln in same day. I fire the next while making pots-at least 1/3 of the time I also load a 12 cubic footer that same day with glaze ware and fire it the same day I'm glazing if I can get it loaded by 1pm. Thats about 1/3 of the 27 kiln loads I did last year.The day before has part of it spend mixing glazes.

I can make that kiln load in a week but 1 1/2 weeks is better for me. The work cycle is seasonally dependent as well -in winter/spring its more relaxes-summer its a mixed bag depending on show schedules and by Fall its full out get it done.

The pace revolves around show schedules and gallery demands as well as fishing and diving activities (the ocean only gets calm for so long)

If I have lots of back stock (which I usually do) I have flexibility in production.

[glazenerd]

Thanks for all who responded. In reality, now those just starting out have the benefit of those who have been around 62 years, 62 days, and 16 hours.

 

Nerd

[Mark C.]

Thanks for all who responded. In reality, now those just starting out have the benefit of those who have been around 62 years, 62 days, and 16 hours.

 

Nerd

I would not trade my decades in ceramics for anything because in reality this background experience solves so many issues as they arise which in ceramics is never ending

[glazenerd]

Mark:

 

I only have five years in ceramics, and that with a limited scope: so that still makes me a newbie. However, after 42 years or carpentry and home building I am aware of what you are conveying. There comes a point where it becomes part of who you are. There also comes a point where you have a working encyclopedia in your head.

 

Nerd