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B Mix Clay Cone 10 Altering...

Cone 5 wood fired

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#1 Biglou13

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:09 PM

(Warning this is me thinking out loud......again)

No. 5 Ball Clay 50.00 kg
Silica 20.00 kg
Feldspar 30.00 kg


I've see this recipe in different places for laguna cone 10 b mix.
I thought these formula were secret and very proprietary.
I'm taking slightly educated guesses at re formulating for cone 5 and wood firing.
Any help is appreciated. (I'd fear the ceramic chemistry class.....)

Cone 5 b mix guess

Wild guess
50 #5
20. Silica
36. Feldspar

Total 106


Ok basic knowledge says to increase feldspar to lower it to cone 5 b mix? (Which I'm told is really a cone 6 clay).

What changes do you suggest to get this recipe down to cone 5?


woodfired B mix guesstimation

From what I've gleaned from the Internet helmer porcelain is king of flashing. I'm thinking replace a percentage of om4 with helmer porcelain and or combo of helmer epk. The porcelain addition will raise the maturity alone. Then slightly increasing feldspar to melt get the porcelain to mature.
I'm thinking using the B mix ingredients as a base with addition of porcelain

30Helmer/epk
20 #5
20 silica
35 feldspar

Total 105

Maybe + 3 percent bentonite or vee gum if necessary for plasticity
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#2 Mark C.

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:23 PM

(I thought these formula were secret and very proprietary.)

This is a true statement-I doubt this is B-mix on the net.

 

Helmer can add to flashing-It may be eaier to just spry some on top of cone 5 bix mix already made up. Clay takes some time to age and mixing by hand is super laborous unless you have some out come commercial clays will not yield?

I have sprayed helmer onto pots with mixed results.Helmer is not white in color in bag.

Mark


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#3 bciskepottery

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:29 PM

I, too, fear the chemistry class (ceramic or other) . . . and buy my clays from the folks who make them for a living (although I do mix my own glazes).  I also agree with Mark C. that the recipes are proprietary and the net versions are not likely telling the whole story. 



#4 Wyndham

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

There's also a possibility that Nephelene syenite was used for the feldspar or part of it to reduce the maturing temp.

 

Why not test out by making some test tiles like a glaze line blend but in clay instead and see what you get.

 

If you want the flashing try a slip of helmer on your regular clay. There are some on the net for either raw or bisk  slips

Wyndham



#5 Biglou13

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:08 PM

Yeah I've read about some high end clay bodies

The tend to mix components

Helmer/epk

#5/ om4

Feldspar/epk

(Clue as to next trial clay body)

This mixing often , like,genetics, make the best.
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#6 timbo_heff

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

I saw this bmix formula on Digital fire: Pretty sure it can't be right:

Isn't B-mix a white stoneware? White stoneware should have a kaolin componant.

There is no Kaolin in this formula. B-mix prob has EPK. B-mix wood probably subs helmer for the epk.

 

p.s. Why would you would want a cone 5 wood fire ? :



#7 Biglou13

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:40 PM

i dont i want a 10 or better for wood fire

but was interested in dumbing down cone to to a cone 5 white bodied clay.

#5 is supposed to be pretty white.....

Why does a white stoneware need kaolin or epk?
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#8 timbo_heff

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:15 AM

My understanding (and I'm sure the Yoda of Soda or other guru will correct me if I am wrong) is that white stoneware by definition is a stoneware with kaolin.

 

Still not sure why you want to wood fire at cone 5 : that is not nearly hot enough to melt the wood ash (also Yoda: correct me if I am wrong)



#9 Biglou13

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:58 PM

i dont plan on wood firing at cone 5, as a mater of fact i havent wood fired anything yet.......

 

there is a laugna  b mix cone five,   someone here has someone here that has fired cone 5 b mix in wood fire.   not me. nor do i plan to. i am interested in making a good cone 5/6 clay body

 

although you bring up a good question.   at cone 5 you wont get any ash glaze,   but flashing is possible.   things that make me go hmmmmmm


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#10 timbo_heff

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:36 AM

Oh sorry: I see: I read your initial post too quickly: cone 5 and the wood versions were 2 different questions:
So that being said: I'll bet that regular b-mix does have kaolin (probably epk ) and that for the wood version they just replace the epk with kelmer.

 

Cone 5 b-mix definately a bump in the feldspar but probably also a little bump in the flint too since it would be involved in the eutectic.



#11 Biglou13

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

How's this sound.......

How's this

B (ish) mix (ish) cone 5

20. # 5
10. Om 4
10 Epk
20 silica
25. Feldspar
15 Nephsy


(Trying to Learning about eutetic ratios)( chem is not my forte)

Is there a formula. Short of trial and error
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#12 timbo_heff

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:22 AM

Seems quite possibly totally reasonable ...

 

but tangentially, (and I'll probably catch an earful for this): Why in tarnation would you want to make your own clay?!?

It messy, hazardous, time consuming, does not save you any money if you value your time, and unless you have expensive mixer and pugger: it probably will not be as uniformly mixed and de-aired  as the stuff you can buy that goes through professional $50,000 machines.

 

I think making clay is a good exercise for novices to see what goes into the whole process but after that, seems to me that your time (financially and physically) better spent making pots out of clay that someone else makes.

 

No offense, just curious. :unsure:



#13 Biglou13

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:00 PM

Well I'm I'm still youngish ( as far a pottery goes). I made about 25# of clay and it wasn't that much of a pain. I don't have a pug mill.
I made it with paint mixer drill 5 gal buckets. I dried clay in pillow,cases and flower pots (Rootmaker). Then expedited drying by moving pillow cases in doors ( vs 90%plus humidity) and dried on sheet rock. Wedged it up. And made some pots. First test go to wood,fire tommorow (bisque fire held up fine)

I have access to a pug mill. But waiting to see ow first run goes before making bigger batch.

No offense taken.

I actually enjoyed making.

And the sense of ownership is priceless.

It's uniformly mixed, slaked, from a slurry its uniformly moist, it's pugged by hand. I've read lucie rie made her clay in similar way.

Once the art buyers hear story of self made clay from local ingredients...... Local ingredients...... I can see my street cred going up
Along with prices.

The way I see it is if you want out if the book results open a box (wear beige and shop at Walmart)..... If you want to see extraordinary results the extraordinary effort must be made.

Flip side it might totally suck. Nonetheless I still using out of the box clay until I get a few good bodies formulated.

Ill post results in my 101 clay thread when its fired

Read this post about japanese clay by John b. ........explains why I do it. ( I'm a little spoiled cause epk is mined about an hour away and I consider it local )
Caution big brother is watching.
The beige is blinding!!!!!!
The middle of the road is boring

The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.
-Albert Einstein





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