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Adding bat pins to wheel?


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#21 OffCenter

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:34 AM

I was taught pottery by a sadist who wouldn't let us use bats, while at the same time demanding super thin pots. The good thing about that was that the beginner learns new skills and a better feel for the clay. With practice there are a lot of pots that you can lift off the wheel head without drying it with heat and while still sloppy wet and ways to sort of plop it down so that it springs back into shape. This is not a bad skill for a beginner to develop. Sort of like it's a good idea to make beginners learn to tap on center to trim. When I taught in Denver, I copied my teacher and no bats were used in the beginner's class, in other classes they were used if absolutely necessary for bowls shapes. I much rather use a heat gun for a few seconds to a couple of minutes to lift a ready to finish pot  (handle, foot) than mess with bats and covering things with plastic. Almost the only use I have for bats is my  30 inch bats that I use to trim large bows because my wheel head isn't big enough.

 

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#22 Benzine

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

I was taught pottery by a sadist who wouldn't let us use bats, while at the same time demanding super thin pots. The good thing about that was that the beginner learns new skills and a better feel for the clay. With practice there are a lot of pots that you can lift off the wheel head without drying it with heat and while still sloppy wet and ways to sort of plop it down so that it springs back into shape. This is not a bad skill for a beginner to develop. Sort of like it's a good idea to make beginners learn to tap on center to trim. When I taught in Denver, I copied my teacher and no bats were used in the beginner's class, in other classes they were used if absolutely necessary for bowls shapes. I much rather use a heat gun for a few seconds to a couple of minutes to lift a ready to finish pot  (handle, foot) than mess with bats and covering things with plastic. Almost the only use I have for bats is my  30 inch bats that I use to trim large bows because my wheel head isn't big enough.

 

Jim

That's indeed a good way to learn.  Either adapt, or fall behind, kind of like submerging yourself in a foreign language to learn it. 

I wish I could do something like that, for my students, but there just isn't time. 

I have not yet been accused of being a sadist, though I have been called a  "Fun Hater" on many occasions.


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#23 ayjay

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:15 PM

Hmmm, I couldn't find anything on Lowe's site, unless I wasn't looking in the right spot.

 

I found some screw on Amazon, but any good matches were not available.

I think the correct term is "socket head bolt" or "cap screw" or even "socket head cap bolt"



#24 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:58 AM

If you have an old fashioned hardware store or a fastener store near you , you will find them. The are fairly common. we have an ACE Bolt and Screw shop that sells only fasteners. I got some there for the classroom.
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#25 Ben

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:01 AM

A tip:

go to Enco or other industrial supplier online or local and buy a 3/8" "spotting drill". You only need High speed steel, not carbide.

They will be about $5 online.

Use the bat to line up the holes and as a guide for the spotting drill and use the spotting drill to mark your holes. Then move on to regular drill bits increasing in size and with lubricant.



#26 Benzine

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:40 AM

A tip:

go to Enco or other industrial supplier online or local and buy a 3/8" "spotting drill". You only need High speed steel, not carbide.

They will be about $5 online.

Use the bat to line up the holes and as a guide for the spotting drill and use the spotting drill to mark your holes. Then move on to regular drill bits increasing in size and with lubricant.

Thanks for the tip(s).  But isn't the shaft of a standard bat pin, 1/4"?  So wouldn't I want a 1/4" bit?

 

Also, what kind of lubricant would you recommend; WD-40, 2 in 1 oil?


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#27 Red Rocks

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:25 PM

I use a product like you are describing and it is called a “Bat Grabber” and is available from Bailey Ceramics.  I have seen other suppliers who have similar products.  However, I use it with bat pins and did not realize you could use it standalone.  The beauty of the product is that it holds bats in place that would otherwise wobble, click, move around, etc. because the holes were worn or not drilled exactly right.  They cost around $12 and I would call them a magical product because they really work.



#28 Red Rocks

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:33 PM

I use a product like you are describing and it is called a “Bat Grabber” and is available from Bailey Ceramics.  I have seen other suppliers who have similar products.  However, I use it with bat pins and did not realize you could use it standalone.  The beauty of the product is that it holds bats in place that would otherwise wobble, click, move around, etc. because the holes were worn or not drilled exactly right.  They cost around $12 and I would call them a magical product because they really work.  If I were a teacher or running a lab where there were a lot of old bats with worn holes and wobbles, I would encourage my serious students to buy them - would save a lot of frustration.



#29 oldlady

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:22 AM

biglou, have you done this yet?


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#30 Biglou13

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

Not yet, I usually throw right on wheel head. I've been using clay blobs under bats if I needed bats, I'm playing with this system http://www.pspottery.com to make plates, which is why I oginally posted question. But have decided to use the the bat mate/ gripper idea to hold my keyed bat to wheel. So at this point I don't see any need to drill into my wheel head.
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#31 Chris Throws Pots

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:37 PM

For a drop-in bat pin, the exact product at a hardware store is a "1/4 20 Socket Cap Screw" and its matching wing nut.  Go to the hardware store and ask the clerk.  Every hardware store stocks this product.  Spend the extra fifty cents per piece to get stainless steel version.  I'm unfamiliar with the Harbor Freight wheel Big Lou has, but common a common length is 1".  Brent wheels require a longer pin... 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" I believe.

 

My own wheel's (a Soldner S-100) wheelhead is drilled with threaded holes for bat pins. When I got it second hand, it came with threaded holes, so I'm unsure if this is part of the Soldner design or was added by its first owner.  I made a regrettable uneducated guess as to the thread size and ended up messing up one of the holes with improper bat pins... the screw ripped as I tried to remove it, essentially leaving a shiv protruding from the wheelhead surface.  I had to have this ground flat and two fresh holes drilled.

 

I had it ground drilled at a machine shop to ensure precision.  Between my lack of experience with the tap and die process, and my lack of the proper equipment, it was well worth paying to have a professional do it.

 

Like Big Lou, I couldn't get the wheelhead off (at least easily), so I just brought the whole wheel to the shop.  I had the machinist drill the holes to fit the standard 1/4 20 socket cap screw.  I am VERY happy with the result.  No wing nuts, no wiggle.

 

Hope this helps!

 

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#32 Benzine

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:11 PM

I finally added the bat pins to my classroom wheels. 

The pins, I purchased from Bailey, as they were reasonably priced enough for me. 

Following the good advice here, I did quite a bit of measuring, before making the pin holes.  I use my plasti-bat from home, as a template, to transfer the location of the pin holes. 

I then used a computer drawing program, to create some small circles, the size of the pin heads, with a cross draw in them, marking the center.  I printed and cut those out, then tacked them to the wheel, on top of the areas I marked earlier. 

I then used a punch, another great tip, in the center of the circles I created.  

From there, I worked my way up in drill bit size.  I even made and used my own cutting oil, to help in the process. 

 

Everything went pretty smooth.  I may have "Over-Engineered" the whole process, but as I see it, it's better than having to buy a new wheel head....or three. 

The good news was, that I didn't even realize, that one of my wheels had pin holes already.  The bad news is, one of my wheels that had pin holes, had some, that were the wrong size and spacing.  The Shimpo RK, had pins installed, when I got to the district.  I took them off, because I had no bats.  So I was planning on just putting them back in.  Sadly, they are quite a bit smaller, than the standard bat pin, and seem to be about 10.5" apart, instead of 10".  So I ended up drilling holes on that one too.  Then, after I went to install the pins, I found, that the wing nut doesn't thread on all the way, because apparently the wheel head is thinner, than others.  Oh well, I'll figure something out.

 

I'm glad I have that done, now my students can finally really get going on producing some wheel thrown work!


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