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John255

Steven Hill's Firing Schedule For Bisque?

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Jim (0ffcenter)

I gotta say I'm surprised, your a Steven hill fan.......the mug is cool, but those bottles, your online presence.....I thought would be diametrically opposed to his style / thought process. .I would have never guessed. Even more surpised that your more than familiar in his ways.

 

Nor would I expect a Steven hill fan boy/girl to make bottles like yours...

 

I like his work alot, Just not my steeze (style)...

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Bailey's Red:

 

Custer - 46.6

 

EPK - 4

 

Bentonite - 2

 

Bone Ash - 15

 

Lithium Carb - 4

 

Talc - 16.9

 

Silica - 11.5

 

Red Iron Oxide - 11.5

 

Different iron oxides produce different results, I have had the best luck with high purity ones. Crocus Martis is good to try also. Slow cooling a must.

 

Another good iron red is Bill Van Gilders, recipe on his website.

 

Min

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Thanks Min,

You are always right in there!

Just got in some Spanish Red Iron.

I've been to Spain four times and didn't see a spot of Spanish red.

Hard to believe we can lust after rust the way we do.

John255

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Thank you off center I am now the proud owner of my very first glaze notebook with the watercolor green glaze recipe and notes written in it. I might never get brave enough to use it but its there and who knows what the future will bring. I even made note about what you said its properties are and that you like to use it with opulence clear. This is so cool!

 

I'd actually gone by your gallery a little bit earlier today and seen your pieces and was astounded at the colors. The green swirled colors blend so well with your shapes on the cups its perfect symmetry I can't even picture them with a different glaze they look like they should be those colors. I actually saw my first piece of bisque fired lizella clay the other day when I was watching my teacher unload the studio kiln. I must say your piece is worlds away and you really utilize the red of the clay well with the other colors of the cup and holder. I especially like the pieces you showed there as well as here with the white and blue and thought wow I wonder how he did that and I doubt I'll ever get that perfect with my colors. Thank you so much for sharing your work and insight.

 

Terry

 

 

Thanks for the critique! I noticed in another thread that you're buying a kiln. Looks like you're getting all set up in your studio. When you're ready to start mixing your own glazes I think you'll like that a lot better than depending on commercial glazes. Glazing isn't just the last thing you do to a pot, it is an art in itself and well worth the learning curve. Setting up a glaze lab isn't nearly as daunting at it must seem to someone just starting out. A half pound or so of 6 or 8 of the coloring and opacifying chems and 20 lbs or so of the 8 or 10 clays and fluxes, a good scale and you're ready to go. This is in a thread about Steven Hill's techniques. When you're ready to start studying glazes I highly recommend that you buy "The Surface Techniques of Steven Hill".

 

Jim

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Jim (0ffcenter)

I gotta say I'm surprised, your a Steven hill fan.......the mug is cool, but those bottles, your online presence.....I thought would be diametrically opposed to his style / thought process. .I would have never guessed. Even more surpised that your more than familiar in his ways.

 

Nor would I expect a Steven hill fan boy/girl to make bottles like yours...

 

I like his work alot, Just not my steeze (style)...

 

 

When I started potting again (after taking a little 35-year break) everything was new to me again. The famous potters of my student and early potting days were all dead and things had changed. The first new to me potter whose pots blew me away was Stephen Hill. But what really impressed me was that this guy who was a student when I was and had come up in the tradition that all serious pottery was cone 10 reduction and spent his entire career making incredibly beautiful cone 10 reduction pottery, could suddenly stop and turn on a dime and reject all that and say, "Hey, I can do even better work firing in this humble cone 6 electric kiln." And, he's right. Putting a computer on the elec kiln changed everything. I've said in some other thread that the elec kiln is for this decade what cone 10 reduction was for the '70's, salt was for the '80's, and wood for the '90's. I love what you can do in an elec kiln, including doing sagger firings that are better than anything you can do in any other kind of kiln.

 

But, starting over makes me a student again and like most students, I haven't settled on one kind of pottery that I concentrate on. I love wood firing and every time the owner of middle Georgia's only anagama says it's time to start splitting wood I'm ready.

 

Jim

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Jim (Offcenter)

Thanks for offering any missing SH formulas.

Do you (or anyone) have Bailey's Red?

Thanks,

John255

 

 

I see that Min has already posted it. Good info, too. I haven't had much luck with high purity RIO. The glazes I've tested it in speckle. I like subing Spanish RIO in a lot of saturated iron glazes and have had good results Crocus.

 

Jim

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Thank you all for responding to Bailey Red.

I've noticed several, or maybe most, formulas for iron reds contain Bone Ash.

The suppliers have two forms Di-Calcium, and Tri-Calcium.

The Tri version is three times the price.

The cheaper version is made of ground animal bones.

A search did not turn up any information about which is best.

Seems there was a lot of discussion couple years back even to extent of using human bones.

One woman said she was going to make a glaze with her husbands bones.

Hope she can wait.

Anyone have any preference on which bone to pick?

Thanks.

John255

 

 

 

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Thank you all for responding to Bailey Red.

I've noticed several, or maybe most, formulas for iron reds contain Bone Ash.

The suppliers have two forms Di-Calcium, and Tri-Calcium.

The Tri version is three times the price.

The cheaper version is made of ground animal bones.

A search did not turn up any information about which is best.

Seems there was a lot of discussion couple years back even to extent of using human bones.

One woman said she was going to make a glaze with her husbands bones.

Hope she can wait.

Anyone have any preference on which bone to pick?

Thanks.

John255

 

 

I tweak the amounts of bone ash in my iron saturates. In a glaze that doesn't have any a little seems to help it lean a little more toward red. I didn't know there were two different kinds. Maybe Min can shed some light on this. Who is that masked man/woman anyway? He/she seems to know a lot about iron saturates.

 

Jim

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Thank you all for responding to Bailey Red.

I've noticed several, or maybe most, formulas for iron reds contain Bone Ash.

The suppliers have two forms Di-Calcium, and Tri-Calcium.

The Tri version is three times the price.

The cheaper version is made of ground animal bones.

A search did not turn up any information about which is best.

Seems there was a lot of discussion couple years back even to extent of using human bones.

One woman said she was going to make a glaze with her husbands bones.

Hope she can wait.

Anyone have any preference on which bone to pick?

Thanks.

John255

 

 

I tweak the amounts of bone ash in my iron saturates. In a glaze that doesn't have any a little seems to help it lean a little more toward red. I didn't know there were two different kinds. Maybe Min can shed some light on this. Who is that masked man/woman anyway? He/she seems to know a lot about iron saturates.

 

Jim

 

 

He/She? I've been called a few names in the past but that's a first : ) No, I don't know a lot about them but I've spent far too much time messing around with glaze tests. The iron red I settled on for use on my clay, M370 Plainsman is Bailey's Red with tricalcium phospate, crocus martis (11.5%) for the iron and soda feldspar not custer. I attached a picture of test tiles with this glaze, hard to capture the sparkles it has without camera glare. Tile on the left is 1 dip, 2 on the right. Breaks darker on edges with 2 dips. It's very smooth, sparkles and survived 3 boiling water/ice water fit tests. My apologies if you already know this but M370 is similar to BMix ^5 with a bit lower expansion.

 

As an aside, I email Bill Van Gilder about his iron red and concerns about the low silica levels in iron reds, he said that he had talked to a couple glaze tech people and they thought there was nothing to be concerned about since iron is the only thing likely to leach. (I tend to be overly concerned with glaze stability)

 

Good luck with your glaze testing,

 

Min (aka he/she : ) - who hates those creepy yellow smiley faces

 

 

 

 

 

post-747-136906675275_thumb.jpg

post-747-136906675275_thumb.jpg

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Thank you all for responding to Bailey Red.

I've noticed several, or maybe most, formulas for iron reds contain Bone Ash.

The suppliers have two forms Di-Calcium, and Tri-Calcium.

The Tri version is three times the price.

The cheaper version is made of ground animal bones.

A search did not turn up any information about which is best.

Seems there was a lot of discussion couple years back even to extent of using human bones.

One woman said she was going to make a glaze with her husbands bones.

Hope she can wait.

Anyone have any preference on which bone to pick?

Thanks.

John255

 

 

I tweak the amounts of bone ash in my iron saturates. In a glaze that doesn't have any a little seems to help it lean a little more toward red. I didn't know there were two different kinds. Maybe Min can shed some light on this. Who is that masked man/woman anyway? He/she seems to know a lot about iron saturates.

 

Jim

 

 

He/She? I've been called a few names in the past but that's a first : ) No, I don't know a lot about them but I've spent far too much time messing around with glaze tests. The iron red I settled on for use on my clay, M370 Plainsman is Bailey's Red with tricalcium phospate, crocus martis (11.5%) for the iron and soda feldspar not custer. I attached a picture of test tiles with this glaze, hard to capture the sparkles it has without camera glare. Tile on the left is 1 dip, 2 on the right. Breaks darker on edges with 2 dips. It's very smooth, sparkles and survived 3 boiling water/ice water fit tests. My apologies if you already know this but M370 is similar to BMix ^5 with a bit lower expansion.

 

As an aside, I email Bill Van Gilder about his iron red and concerns about the low silica levels in iron reds, he said that he had talked to a couple glaze tech people and they thought there was nothing to be concerned about since iron is the only thing likely to leach. (I tend to be overly concerned with glaze stability)

 

Good luck with your glaze testing,

 

Min (aka he/she : ) - who hates those creepy yellow smiley faces

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't mean to offend. I started to refer to you as "he" but since you've provided no info about yourself in you profile I have no way of knowing if you are a he or she thus he/she. I hate the creepy yellow smiley faces, too. The glaze on the tile looks a lot like Readers Digest Red. (I know: weird ###### name! I knew how it got it but can't recall now.)

 

Gerstley Borate ... 31.0

Silica ... 30.0

Kona F-4 ... 20.0

Talc ... 14.0

EPK ... 5.0

RIO ... 15.0

 

Very dark, as would be expected with that much iron, but rich and with lots of micro-crystals. Unfortunately, it varies a lot depending on the batch of Gerstley Borate.

 

Jim

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This conversation is very enjoyable and saving me lots of time.

At 82 I find the saving of time to be important.

I too have spent far too much time testing glazes. It is an addiction.

However, Iron Reds are new for me.

I notice most of the formula's are quite low on alumina which in decorative applications would not be an issue.

Gerstley however is an issue with its variability, and nasty gelling habit.

Guess I will order some Tri-calcium and give the original Bailey scheme a shot.

The rusty orange SH is getting with it on top of SCM is very alluring.

If I can come anywhere near that I'll probably have to sleep with the pieces.

I'm indebted to both of you.

Thank you ever so much for your comments.

John255

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This conversation is very enjoyable and saving me lots of time.

At 82 I find the saving of time to be important.

I too have spent far too much time testing glazes. It is an addiction.

However, Iron Reds are new for me.

I notice most of the formula's are quite low on alumina which in decorative applications would not be an issue.

Gerstley however is an issue with its variability, and nasty gelling habit.

Guess I will order some Tri-calcium and give the original Bailey scheme a shot.

The rusty orange SH is getting with it on top of SCM is very alluring.

If I can come anywhere near that I'll probably have to sleep with the pieces.

I'm indebted to both of you.

Thank you ever so much for your comments.

John255

 

 

One last little thing with high iron glazes if you haven't made up one before, it will seem very thick when you first mix it up. Measure out the water, mix up the glaze and let it sit for a couple days and the consistancy will thin out. Impulse is to add more water when mixing up but then it's to dilute.

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That is a valuable tip Min.

Similar problem with Gerstley Borate.

I used to use Darvan 7 to deflocculate it, but in a few hours it will gell up again and look like it needs water.

With your help I'm really looking forward to getting Spanish Iron Reds, and that has nothing to do with Castilian politics.

John255

 

 

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....... he said that he had talked to a couple glaze tech people and they thought there was nothing to be concerned about since iron is the only thing likely to leach.

 

This is true. Thre are a tiny number of people whio actually have a disease whre additional iron would be bad.... but they'd have to use the piece of pottery continually with some sort of acidic material in it to even become CLOSE to an issue.

 

That being said, if I am remembering correctly Mononna Rossol does mention having knowledge of one legal case where a saturated iron red then oversprayed with red iron oxide on the INSIDE of a coffee mug caused some itron poisioning issues with ........ are you ready for this.... a lawyer who drank coffe out of that mug repeatedly everyday.

 

But this is a rare exception. (And not exactly a great way to approach the glazing of food surfaces.)

 

best,

 

.....................john

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This has been a great thread on so many levels. There's a lot of information to be learned here.

 

I've come in a bit late to the conversation but thought of something from a article from many years ago. The article dealt with the color of certain iron glazes and one that would change from a deep iron red(Bailey's ) to a light yellow red.

The author said to refire to 06 to get a very light colored iron glaze. This was back around 1986-1990 in CM I think but I remember trying it at the time and it did lighten up the color.

 

I have a thought that we might be hitting near a sweet spot in the 1500-1800 f range. Because of the different recipes that elusive bright iron red is different for each kiln and potter.

 

I wonder if a firing that brought the ramp back up after the low 1600-1700 back to 1800 or so and held for some time, before shutting down might not produce some interesting effects.

 

Wyndham

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I wonder if a firing that brought the ramp back up after the low 1600-1700 back to 1800 or so and held for some time, before shutting down might not produce some interesting effects.

 

Wyndham

 

 

If you try it please let us know the results.

 

Jim

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Wyndham,

Welcome to the conversation.

Yes, by all means share your discoveries.

Since I started this thread I've found a small used computer controlled Olympic kiln for testing.

Tomorrow will be first slow cool firing with samples of Bailey Red and others.

It will also be a first trial for Spanish red iron, and with, and without synthetic Bone Ash.

At the same time my neighbor will be firing samples from same glaze batch, but with normal cooling.

May have to start another thread with results?

Regards,

John255

 

 

 

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Yes, we looked at that in post #4.

I agree.

The first ramp I'm interested in is holding one hour at the top without over firing ^6.

The comments by Kate at end of article were also interesting. Photos would have cushioned the brag.

However, even Dr. Marins does not claim to know whats happening chemically in the liquid state.

Is there a more efficient way?

Five hours around 1600F is a long time.

Is time part of the art like Bonsai? I don't know.

John255

 

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I finished my first slow firing of SH glazes yesterday with results not even close.

However, I'd be grateful to hear opinions on Baileys Red first.

The firing schedule followed SH's for bisqued as supplied by Min on page one post two of this thread.

The formula for Baileys also supplied by Min on page two post, #28 was followed using Spanish Red Iron.

Only possible difference was synthetic Bone Ash was used instead of natural Bone Ash.

I could not find any reference that advised either type for iron reds.

The fast sample was fired in a neighbors kiln who used the Dawson sitter and no soaking or slow cooling.

The photo shows the slow sample trying to go red on the edges where glaze was thin.

There are also some speckles of red that appear to be crystals on the slow sample.

Both were dipped in same batch, and the only idea I have is to try it thinner, but it is already not very thick.

Thanks.

John255

 

 

 

 

post-23753-137027710188_thumb.jpg

post-23753-137027710188_thumb.jpg

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I finished my first slow firing of SH glazes yesterday with results not even close.

However, I'd be grateful to hear opinions on Baileys Red first.

The firing schedule followed SH's for bisqued as supplied by Min on page one post two of this thread.

The formula for Baileys also supplied by Min on page two post, #28 was followed using Spanish Red Iron.

Only possible difference was synthetic Bone Ash was used instead of natural Bone Ash.

I could not find any reference that advised either type for iron reds.

The fast sample was fired in a neighbors kiln who used the Dawson sitter and no soaking or slow cooling.

The photo shows the slow sample trying to go red on the edges where glaze was thin.

There are also some speckles of red that appear to be crystals on the slow sample.

Both were dipped in same batch, and the only idea I have is to try it thinner, but it is already not very thick.

Thanks.

John255

 

 

 

I've given up (for the time being) on Bailey's Red. Right now I'm getting good results with Juicy Fruit over SCM warm. I subbed Spanish RIO for the RIO in JF. Here is a pitcher (two views) that I unloaded this morning: http://ceramicartsda...wimage&img=2641

 

Jim

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I finished my first slow firing of SH glazes yesterday with results not even close.

However, I'd be grateful to hear opinions on Baileys Red first.

The firing schedule followed SH's for bisqued as supplied by Min on page one post two of this thread.

The formula for Baileys also supplied by Min on page two post, #28 was followed using Spanish Red Iron.

Only possible difference was synthetic Bone Ash was used instead of natural Bone Ash.

I could not find any reference that advised either type for iron reds.

The fast sample was fired in a neighbors kiln who used the Dawson sitter and no soaking or slow cooling.

The photo shows the slow sample trying to go red on the edges where glaze was thin.

There are also some speckles of red that appear to be crystals on the slow sample.

Both were dipped in same batch, and the only idea I have is to try it thinner, but it is already not very thick.

Thanks.

John255

 

 

Why not try a really thick one too. Maybe 3 mm or even more? If you do not get the red, you get nice dark black.

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I don't think thicker will help. If trying to get your BR to look like Hill's, you should spray it over sprayed SCM warm. Vary the thickness of both. You'll need something bigger than a test tile.

 

Jim

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I finished my first slow firing of SH glazes yesterday with results not even close.

However, I'd be grateful to hear opinions on Baileys Red first.

The firing schedule followed SH's for bisqued as supplied by Min on page one post two of this thread.

The formula for Baileys also supplied by Min on page two post, #28 was followed using Spanish Red Iron.

Only possible difference was synthetic Bone Ash was used instead of natural Bone Ash.

I could not find any reference that advised either type for iron reds.

The fast sample was fired in a neighbors kiln who used the Dawson sitter and no soaking or slow cooling.

The photo shows the slow sample trying to go red on the edges where glaze was thin.

There are also some speckles of red that appear to be crystals on the slow sample.

Both were dipped in same batch, and the only idea I have is to try it thinner, but it is already not very thick.

Thanks.

John255

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

 

Hmm, isn't glaze testing fun? I pulled out my Michael Bailey Glazes book and had another look at what he wrote about iron. Apologies if you have already read this, he states that the strength of the iron is the most important thing in the glaze and the one he used for the example in his book produced "greens and greeny browns up to7%, bright orange at 10 to 13% with a gradual transition from orange to dark satin brown at 24%". That being said, none of his lower rio sample tiles have the hares fur of green that yours show. It also appears that your tests are more of a gloss glaze finish than the satin finish I get from iron reds.

 

The test tile below is a tweaked version of VanGilders Iron Red, the top third of the tile has 3 dips of glaze, no trace of green fur. Let me know if you want the recipe, I tweaked it to lower the expansion to fit my clay better. Do you have access to other types of iron or from other suppliers? If you like I can scan the couple pages in Bailey's book and email it to you. (I used the S.Hill slow cool down ramp on the tile below.)

 

Min

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post-747-137028306773_thumb.jpg

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