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#1 Natas Setiabudhi

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:34 AM

Hi everyone
Is this topic has been discussed before? I want to try single firing, so glazing bone dry state. Are there special treatment for this, either the techniques or the materials? because you know, bone dry pot is very frangible in application of the glazes, especially in pouring and dipping techniques. I read the article that we can add flocculant agent like magnesium sulfate and calcium chloride or may be there is another ingredient. Is that true?
Thank you for your attention.
Natas Setiabudhi
Kupu Ceramic Studio, Indonesia
www.butterflyceramic.blogspot.com

#2 acg

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

Have you seen Steven Hills video? He get fabulous results once firing in ^6 oxidation. He pours the liner and them sprays the outside. I took his workshop and have used his once fire program with a ^6 porcelain paper clay. I only applies (poured) lining glaze inside ( Jon's clear ^6-10) nothing on the outside. It worked really well. My pieces were small and very thin. I was quite surprised at how well the forms held there shape even though the clay was quite softened by the glaze, until it began to dry.

Hope this helps

#3 bciskepottery

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

I think you want to apply glaze at leather hard, not bone dry, when once-firing.

#4 TJR

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:41 PM

Natas;
There are two methods that potters use to raw glaze.
Method 1;Glaze the insides of the pots when they are leather hard, then wait for the pieces to go bone dry. Then you glaze the outside. You may lose some pots because the wall of the piece re-expands with moisture.
Method 2; Glaze at leather hard the entire pot. This is more satisfying and less risky to the integrity of the pot. You have to adjust your glazes so that you have at least 20% plastic clay in the glaze. This is done by substututing ball clay for kaolin in the glaze. You can also add 3% bentonite to the glaze as well. Now you are creating more of a slip glaze.
Lots of potters the world over raw glaze, and most do not use a glaze sprayer.I used this method for a number of years but found it difficult for large bowls and plates. Now I bisque everything and use glaze tongs.
TJR

#5 OffCenter

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:38 PM

Your best bet is what acg suggested. Steven Hill glazes dry pots (nobody does it better) and the glazes are just regular glazes with no special % requirement for plastic clay. If you don't want to shell out 50 bucks for the video just google something like "Steven Hill glazing raw clay". That pulls up several links about Hill's glazing methods, even an old CM article that is pretty detailed.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#6 Natas Setiabudhi

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

Hi everyone
Thanks all for the attention. I have searched in google about "Steven Hill Glazing Raw Clay" and really helpful. I interested about his article in ceramics monthly.
If I apply the glazes to leather hard, don't you think make a thin layer? also if we treat different between dry pot and leather hard, we will get practice difficulties. Because I'm very forgetful, so the leather hard pot turn into dry pot, hahaha... May be it's just my personal problem.
How about flocculant agent ? Does it help (mix to the glazes)?
I just remembered, my friend once said, the glazes can be mixed with deflocculant agent (water glass), so the glaze liquid not damp to much to the dry pot, because the glazes become dry quickly. I don't know, Is it true what my friend said?
Natas Setiabudhi
Kupu Ceramic Studio, Indonesia
www.butterflyceramic.blogspot.com

#7 OffCenter

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:22 AM

Hi everyone
Thanks all for the attention. I have searched in google about "Steven Hill Glazing Raw Clay" and really helpful. I interested about his article in ceramics monthly.
If I apply the glazes to leather hard, don't you think make a thin layer? also if we treat different between dry pot and leather hard, we will get practice difficulties. Because I'm very forgetful, so the leather hard pot turn into dry pot, hahaha... May be it's just my personal problem.
How about flocculant agent ? Does it help (mix to the glazes)?
I just remembered, my friend once said, the glazes can be mixed with deflocculant agent (water glass), so the glaze liquid not damp to much to the dry pot, because the glazes become dry quickly. I don't know, Is it true what my friend said?


If you just apply it to dry pots you don't have to worry about always glazing at a certain stage of dryness. Also, you may be making this harder than it should be. Maybe just try glazing a dry pot without worrying about deflocculants, etc. and then worry about all that stuff if that experiment is a failure. Notice that by the time that Hill finishes layering several glazes, the glaze coverage is not thin. Obviously, the glaze firing has to be slowed down to a bisque firing until you're up to 300 or so degrees F and you probably don't want to put good pots near or even in the same kiln as the tests. Just go for it. Good luck. The worst that can happen is the pot blows up and destroys the kiln causing it to catch on fire and burn down the building.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#8 Mark C.

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:43 PM

One thing not mentioned is raw glazing takes more time. Maybe a small point if the amount of work is small.
Mark
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#9 OffCenter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:50 PM

One thing not mentioned is raw glazing takes more time. Maybe a small point if the amount of work is small.
Mark


I don't think so. A little more time glazing because you have to be more careful handling the pots, but you more than make up for that time (by far!) with the time you save not loading, firing, and unloading a bisque. So, NO, raw glazing takes less time. It also saves money and is better for the environment.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#10 Mark C.

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:35 PM

If your kiln has say 800-1000 pieces in it(mostly smalls) once a week will it save you time?
I think this is not an easy answer -yes or no answer-I'm sticking to my takes longer at least for me . I have done both.
I know of no full time functional potter making tons of pots every week who does this in my west coast world of my shows
-Yes Mr. Hill does a fantastic job but he is making more from teaching (workshops)I feel than making and selling tons of pots every week.
I'm open to finding a potter doing it on a large scale and know they are out there I have not seen one yet doing so. Industry does it I know.
Mark
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www.liscomhillpottery.com

#11 OffCenter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:26 PM

If your kiln has say 800-1000 pieces in it(mostly smalls) once a week will it save you time?
I think this is not an easy answer -yes or no answer-I'm sticking to my takes longer at least for me . I have done both.
I know of no full time functional potter making tons of pots every week who does this in my west coast world of my shows
-Yes Mr. Hill does a fantastic job but he is making more from teaching (workshops)I feel than making and selling tons of pots every week.
I'm open to finding a potter doing it on a large scale and know they are out there I have not seen one yet doing so. Industry does it I know.
Mark


The more pieces you make and the smaller they are the more time and money you save. It's the big pieces that could be a problem. I'm glad you're "...sticking to my takes longer at least for me." Otherwise you would have surprised the hell out of me. Yes, Mr. Hill does do a fantastic job. He is one of the few potters I know who produces lots of functional pots that transcend the functional and become art. Most production potters may as well be screwing in lugs at a automobile factory as putting the 80th handle on the 80th insipid mug of the day. Gotta go. Got to unload a bisque kiln.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#12 Mark C.

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:27 PM


I assume what this means(Most production potters may as well be screwing in lugs at a automobile factory as putting the 80th handle on the 80th insipid mug of the day. )

is that you may prefer the public to buy slip mugs from china over what most production potters make??
Mugs that are hand made no matter how they are made better than the alternative for me.
Affordable hand made durable pottery for public use has been my passion for 40 years .
This above statement seems a bit overkill-remember in ceramics there are all types but really auto workers vs clay workers. I cannot make that leap.
My bisque needs unloading now myself.
Mark


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www.liscomhillpottery.com

#13 OffCenter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:20 PM


I assume what this means(Most production potters may as well be screwing in lugs at a automobile factory as putting the 80th handle on the 80th insipid mug of the day. )

is that you may prefer the public to buy slip mugs from china over what most production potters make??
Mugs that are hand made no matter how they are made better than the alternative for me.
Affordable hand made durable pottery for public use has been my passion for 40 years .
This above statement seems a bit overkill-remember in ceramics there are all types but really auto workers vs clay workers. I cannot make that leap.
My bisque needs unloading now myself.
Mark


You're not stupid so you're just being disingenuous when you pull that crap about China out of thin air, so let's just get our little debate back on track. You say single-firing takes longer than double-firing because the raw clay is fragile and requires more time and care to glaze. I'm saying that the time (not to mention money) saved by not loading a bisque, firing a bisque, and unloading a bisque more than compensates for the extra care. Want to leave it there or are you going to make more "assumptions"?

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.




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