New Kiln + Controller Advice Sought

[Doppler9000]

Hello all,

I am looking to get my first kiln, and wanted some guidance with regard to brands.  All of the major players make a suitable kiln, that will work in my space, with my electrics, etc.

I was leaning toward an L&L Easy-Fire, based on the good words on this forum, but wanted to know what my next best options would be if I want a solid state relay, which isn’t cost effective on the Easy-Fires.

The other options I am considering are Evenheat, Skutt, Jen-Ken and Olympic.  For now I have ruled out Tucker.

How would you rank the build quality of these options?

How different are the touchscreen controllers with regard to usability?  The Genesis units are less costly than the TAP II, TAP, and Skutt touchscreens - what are you giving up?

Thank you.

[Dick White]

I am a big fan of the L&L kilns. I am not personally familiar with Evenheat, Jen-Ken, or Olympic, but from all the noise in the various pottery groups on the intertubes, most of the users of those brands appear not to be production users, and most of them seem to be happy enough with their kilns. I have worked with both Skutt and L&L in several community studios with a lot of volume, and much prefer the L&L. The Skutt PK models are designed for high production environments and are pretty sturdy kilns compared to their regular line, but you can get an equivalent level from L&L with their quad element option. If you want even firing, the L&L has zone control (multiple thermocouples) as standard; you will pay extra for it from Skutt. If you get zone control from Skutt, it will manage the separate zones independently as expected, but the 3 thermocouples cannot be calibrated separately (at least in those at one studio I work with that has Skutts), you get one thermocouple offset that applies to all 3 regardless of whether a particular zone is running hotter or cooler than the others. If you are going to do your own maintenance, the hard ceramic element holders in the L&L make element changes a breeze. The Skutt pins and channels in the soft brick are hateful. As for the SSRs, they seem to be an available option for only a few of the Skutt models, so do some more comparative research if that is priority for you. Regarding the Skutt touchscreen vs. the Genesis (which is now standard on L&L kilns, you will pay extra for the Skutt KMT versions of their kilns), you have the question backwards. Both are made by Bartlett, but the Skutt version is in different form factor to match the way they designed their control panel. The screens and features are mostly comparable, but Skutt does not offer much of a written user manual, instead they build an FAQ of sorts into a help menu behind a button on the screen. Further (which borders on criminal IMO), Skutt has removed the slow cool option from the cone-fire programming. If you wish to slow cool a firing, you must construct a custom ramp-hold program that mimics the desired cone-fire program and append additional segments for the slow cool. In addition to being inconvenient, you lose access to the adaptive capability of the cone-fire method. (With this feature, either controller will monitor the ramp rate in the final segment into the target cone and automatically modify the target temperature (e.g., lower the target temperature if the ramp is lagging due to worn elements) in accordance with an algorithm licensed from Orton. In a ramp-hold program, the target temperature is absolute as programmed, which means a slower ramp due to worn elements will result in an overfire.) The Genesis has an on-off checkbox in the settings for appending a slow cooling segment to a cone-fire program. The only feature Skutt offers over the standard Genesis is an extra cost subscription to a cloud data service into which the controller will automatically upload data from every firing for later retrieval and analysis. The Genesis only retains data for the last 10 firings. If you don't subscribe to the Skutt Kiln Link cloud service, their version also retains data for just the last 10 firings.

The foregoing is my opinion and should not be confused with what anybody else may think..

dw

[Doppler9000]

Thanks, Dick, this is very helpful.

 

[neilestrick]

The Skutt and Genesis/L&L controllers are the same controller as far as the circuit board are concerned, but Skutt puts a different screen on it which drives up the cost, and they also changed the programming that's supposed to make it 'easier', but isn't necessary at all. The Genesis is very straightforward and easy to use and has more functionality than you'll likely ever use. I have not used the TAP controllers, but they appear to be very similiar.

In general, SSRs are not really going to pay for themselves in longer life, and for typical firings you're not going to see any difference in the results. The only place they may be beneficial is in crystalline firings where you're doing a lot of climbing and cooling segments where the improved temperature control of the SSR's can help a little bit. The fast cycling of the SSR's allow the temp to deviate less form the target set point, but it's not really a big deal.  I have a customer who does cone 10 crystalline work with both setups, and they get great results from both. Personally, I would not spend the money, and there are many other factors that should influence your choice of kiln before that- element life, durability, maintenance costs, etc. In your typical non-crystalline work there's no benefit to having SSR's in terms of fired results. SSR's also do not decrease firing costs in any way. You may get improved element life, but not enough to matter.

[Doppler9000]

Thanks, Neil.

If, for the sake of argument, someone was  going to get a kiln with an SSR, what would you recommend?

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Doppler9000 said:

Thanks, Neil.

If, for the sake of argument, someone was  going to get a kiln with an SSR, what would you recommend?

I'd look for a system that uses a cooling fan, not just a heat sink, unless your kiln space is very well cooled. SSR's can burn out if they get too hot, and I don't totally trust a heat sink on its own to do the job, because kiln rooms are typically pretty warm. Beyond that, get a kiln that will be durable and easy to repair.

[Doppler9000]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

 Beyond that, get a kiln that will be durable and easy to repair.

Thanks again.  It is hard to determine durability from afar, which is why I started the thread.  Do you think the Olympic kilns are durable?

[neilestrick]

19 hours ago, Doppler9000 said:

Thanks again.  It is hard to determine durability from afar, which is why I started the thread.  Do you think the Olympic kilns are durable?

I can't recommend specific models since I'm a moderator and a kiln distributor, so check out recommendations other have posted here on the forum. There's a lot of info here.

[TAP User]

The TAP controllers have a really great mobile app that gives complete control right from phone or tablet. It also allows for unlimited firing schedules and steps, and records all the previous firing logs until you decide to offload or delete them. It’s great!

[Denice]

I have purchased two new kilns this year,  I have  fired manual kilns a Skutt and a Paragon for 50 years.    I decided to jump into the world of  computer controlled kilns,  the first one was a Paragon Caldera XL test kiln with a Genisis controller on it.   I found it easy to use,   several months later I noticed that L&L  was having a sale  I also added a Genisis controller to it.   My Skutt still had great firings but  I needed a shorter kiln in my old age.    I sold it to a new potter,   my test kiln just needed new elements but I was wanting a more modern one.    Both of the new kilns  have heavy metal components and thick dense fire brick that is tightly fitted together.   The L&L  had a bigger diameter than my old Skutt  so my husband put some nice roller wheels on it.   I roll it out of the corner to the center of my kiln room and fire it there and roll it back when it is cool and unloaded.   I have two kilns that use the same outlet  and the test kiln has a separate  20 amp  outlet.   Good luck