OffCenter Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Jim, Im so frustrated that Im ready to give up and go to darker porcelain! All of the porcelains Ive seen lately seem very dark even the grollegs. I thought a press might help with warping and evenness. I seem to be losing alot in the kiln as well. I do laminated porcelain. I am now making small blocks and taking thin slices from them to laminate over a base of colored paper clay. Thanks Kathleen Jim, I also use Frost with paper in a manner similar to Chris...glad to hear that Im not the only one to experience such cracking! What I discovered is that when I sintered the piece (fired to 019^) and soaked it in water to sand, I had blowouts...I believe they are paper related. I can relate to your cracking problems as mine also always occur just before bone dry...very frustrating..I was planning to build a hand ram press to help with this problem. Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that's the way Frost works. You check a piece out when it is almost bone dry and think, Great! it's gonna make it, then look at it a couple of hours later and there's a hairline crack running across it. Your process in intriguing. What do you make? Any chance of posting pics? I hope the ram press works but I doubt that it will because I've found that no amount of working and compressing Frost prevents cracking. Jim Kathleen, sorry that you're getting frustrated. What you're doing is so good that is is well worth whatever it takes to solve the problems you're having with the clay. I could easily be wrong but I don't think a ram press is going to solve problems with warping and cracking. I also can't see paper causing blow outs unless there's way too much and/or it isn't evenly mixed into the clay. When I potted in Denver I laminated colored porcelain and never had any problems with it. I used a porcelain made by Mile Hi Ceramics but that was almost 40 years ago so I don't remember the name. Someone just informed me above that they make a cone 6 Southern Ice called Cool Ice. If that's really available, you might want to check that out because Southern Ice is just as white and translucent as Frost and a hell of a lot easier to work with. Chris is obviously the expert on colored porcelain so maybe she can help you. Good luck. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathleenHamlet Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thanks for the kind words, Jim! Southern ice and Cool ice are only available from Australia or Seattle Pottery Supply (and they are out) I buy as much Clay as I can afford which is usually 50 # at a time. I was trying to figure out why the blowouts and paper was all I could think of. I was using the dollmakers technique of sintering and then polishing the surface. perhaps they are air bubbles...anyway it was not quite funny at the time...pieces were popping out like crazy! Im not giving up on clay..just cant afford this kind of loss rate. Jim, Im so frustrated that Im ready to give up and go to darker porcelain! All of the porcelains Ive seen lately seem very dark even the grollegs. I thought a press might help with warping and evenness. I seem to be losing alot in the kiln as well. I do laminated porcelain. I am now making small blocks and taking thin slices from them to laminate over a base of colored paper clay. Thanks Kathleen Jim, I also use Frost with paper in a manner similar to Chris...glad to hear that Im not the only one to experience such cracking! What I discovered is that when I sintered the piece (fired to 019^) and soaked it in water to sand, I had blowouts...I believe they are paper related. I can relate to your cracking problems as mine also always occur just before bone dry...very frustrating..I was planning to build a hand ram press to help with this problem. Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that's the way Frost works. You check a piece out when it is almost bone dry and think, Great! it's gonna make it, then look at it a couple of hours later and there's a hairline crack running across it. Your process in intriguing. What do you make? Any chance of posting pics? I hope the ram press works but I doubt that it will because I've found that no amount of working and compressing Frost prevents cracking. Jim Kathleen, sorry that you're getting frustrated. What you're doing is so good that is is well worth whatever it takes to solve the problems you're having with the clay. I could easily be wrong but I don't think a ram press is going to solve problems with warping and cracking. I also can't see paper causing blow outs unless there's way too much and/or it isn't evenly mixed into the clay. When I potted in Denver I laminated colored porcelain and never had any problems with it. I used a porcelain made by Mile Hi Ceramics but that was almost 40 years ago so I don't remember the name. Someone just informed me above that they make a cone 6 Southern Ice called Cool Ice. If that's really available, you might want to check that out because Southern Ice is just as white and translucent as Frost and a hell of a lot easier to work with. Chris is obviously the expert on colored porcelain so maybe she can help you. Good luck. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Hi Jim They do make a cone 6 Southern Ice. It is called Cool Ice. It is said be as good as the Cone 10 version. Johanna Johanna, Thanks VERY Much! Where can I get it? Jim Hi Jiim As I live in Australia I deal with the manufacturers or their outlets. The manufacturer is Clayworks. Contact Max on max.clay@clayworksaustralia.com and see who carries Cool Ice in the States. Regards Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffCenter Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Hi Jim They do make a cone 6 Southern Ice. It is called Cool Ice. It is said be as good as the Cone 10 version. Johanna Johanna, Thanks VERY Much! Where can I get it? Jim Hi Jiim As I live in Australia I deal with the manufacturers or their outlets. The manufacturer is Clayworks. Contact Max on max.clay@clayworksaustralia.com and see who carries Cool Ice in the States. Regards Johanna Thanks again! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Kathleen If I understand what you are trying to do ... It's probably one of the most difficult challenges around so that's why you are getting so frustrated. From what I understand ... You are trying to cut thin slices from a colored block and laminate it onto paper clay. You are dealing with extremely different shrinkage rates that will affect every firing and result quite naturally in cracks, bloats, breaks and everything else. No getting around the fact that the two things are on different paths! In order to make your idea work, you might have to add the colors to the paper clay, not pure clay. This way the shrinkage rates will match and they will work as a team rather than against each other. Check out the previously mentioned page on my site for some of my results. If I misunderstood and the colored clay is paper too, then you just have to slow down ... When laminating two pieces, I roll them both out then let them rest on a damp towel for at least an hour before trying to connect them. This gives the clays a chance to relax and retract alone before they have to merge. I get best results when I leave them on a damp towel overnight covered with plastic then laminate in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathleenHamlet Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Thanks Chris! Good idea to let them rest....that i dont do-too impatient, I guess. The paperclay is also colored. I was using big blocks (like you do) but that was tying up too much clay at one time. And I was frustrated with the cracking -I knew that it is difficult to slice cleanly with paper in it. Its also fun to make the little canes and mix them up. The warping is also a big issue. For awhile I was mixing frost with other clays. The most promising was the grolleg based clay from Matt and Daves. Unfortunately, it didnt come to market. On Monday morning, I am going to buy my local supplier's grolleg. I am building a small hand operated ram press to help with warping and unevenness. ought to be interesting! Like you, I started with colored clay and never wanted to do anything else! Thanks for the help...Kathleen If I understand what you are trying to do ... It's probably one of the most difficult challenges around so that's why you are getting so frustrated. From what I understand ... You are trying to cut thin slices from a colored block and laminate it onto paper clay. You are dealing with extremely different shrinkage rates that will affect every firing and result quite naturally in cracks, bloats, breaks and everything else. No getting around the fact that the two things are on different paths! In order to make your idea work, you might have to add the colors to the paper clay, not pure clay. This way the shrinkage rates will match and they will work as a team rather than against each other. Check out the previously mentioned page on my site for some of my results. If I misunderstood and the colored clay is paper too, then you just have to slow down ... When laminating two pieces, I roll them both out then let them rest on a damp towel for at least an hour before trying to connect them. This gives the clays a chance to relax and retract alone before they have to merge. I get best results when I leave them on a damp towel overnight covered with plastic then laminate in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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