Newb questions upgrading retrofitting and misusing top loaders

[sharklaser]

Haven't done ceramic anything since high school (long time.)
Ancient and used electric manual top loading kilns on Craigslist/Ebay look attractive to get back into it. Google wasn't helping me answer these questions, hopefully you folks can help.

1.) Cone 6 and Cone 10 rated kilns look identical. Physically, what is different between a Cone 6 and Cone 10 top loader that one can make and handle more heat?  Thicker better bricks and insulation? Higher amperage? More robust heating elements?
2.) Can I retrofit or upgrade a Cone 6 capable top loader to handle Cone 10? What would I need to do?
3.) What happens if I throw caution to the wind and attempt to fire Cone 10 in a Cone 6 rated kiln?  Does the machine blow up or catch fire? Do the heating elements  reach a breaking point? Or is it an insulation problem where everything  is safe but the machine ends up giving off a high amount of external radiant heat and is very energy  inefficient? Seems like there would have had to have been a poor soul (or 10,000+ souls) whose kilnsitter malfunctioned and kept it heating too long.
4.) I see PID controllers for like $100 on Amazon and noticed some Youtubers making videos turning their manual kilns into automatics. Anything I should be worried about before trying a conversion like that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aba62VOlOXc

Thanks everyone!

 

[liambesaw]

1) it's the amperage and elements that determines how high it fires

2) yes, you need to change the elements and any components to handle it

3) it won't reach cone 10

4) it's easier to buy a Bartlett v6-cf controller but it can be done, unfortunately there's a bunch of other stuff you need too. Relays and thermocouples, etc. And the cost goes up. 

I recently upgraded an old manual kiln with a v6cf, I was going to go the cheap pid route too but wanted the functionality of a kiln specific controller and did it right since I was going to be spending money anyway

[Bill Kielb]

6 hours ago, sharklaser said:

Haven't done ceramic anything since high school (long time.)
Ancient and used electric manual top loading kilns on Craigslist/Ebay look attractive to get back into it. Google wasn't helping me answer these questions, hopefully you folks can help.

1.) Cone 6 and Cone 10 rated kilns look identical. Physically, what is different between a Cone 6 and Cone 10 top loader that one can make and handle more heat?  Thicker better bricks and insulation? Higher amperage? More robust heating elements?
2.) Can I retrofit or upgrade a Cone 6 capable top loader to handle Cone 10? What would I need to do?
3.) What happens if I throw caution to the wind and attempt to fire Cone 10 in a Cone 6 rated kiln?  Does the machine blow up or catch fire? Do the heating elements  reach a breaking point? Or is it an insulation problem where everything  is safe but the machine ends up giving off a high amount of external radiant heat and is very energy  inefficient? Seems like there would have had to have been a poor soul (or 10,000+ souls) whose kilnsitter malfunctioned and kept it heating too long.
4.) I see PID controllers for like $100 on Amazon and noticed some Youtubers making videos turning their manual kilns into automatics. Anything I should be worried about before trying a conversion like that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aba62VOlOXc

Thanks everyone!

 

Pretty much as above. Firing to cone ten as opposed to cone six tremendously decreases element life and wear by at least 50%. A cone ten kiln must have Enough power to get to cone ten while offsetting the shell losses in a reasonable time, say 10 hours give or take else things start to overfire because of excessive time.

 Most kilns are in the 3 to 4 watts per square foot of interior surface so  thicker bricks or bricks plus insulation  help,  round better than square as there is less surface area round versus square, heavy duty elements for a bit more element longevity.

wattage is heating energy so more watts needed translates to higher amperage given typical available voltages.

PID controls are great but take retrofitting relays and likely splitting into zones so more relays and some wiring as well as initial tuning then regular programming.

Liam added a V6cf conversion which is a pre made pretty economical  one touch control you see on many kilns in the states. It is a pid (proportional, Integral, Derivative) control with cone tables built in and pid tuning already  set up for many typical kilns.

Just a comment on the video, electrically there is nothing I can find safe about it. It’s creative and the DIY spirit is there but I would suggest just buying a small used  test kiln.

[Benzine]

I will also add, there is no reason to go to Cone 10, in an electric kiln.  

There are plenty of great, durable, functional mid-fire bodies out there, that mature at Cone 5 or 6.

Most potters, who fire to Cone 10, do so in reduction (gas or wood) fired kilns.  The reason they do so, is to get those reduction effects, and they need a body that can withstand the processes.  

As it isn't advisable to do reduction, in an electric kiln, and you can get some "copycat" reduction effects, firing Cone 5/6, most potters who fire electric only go up to those mid-fire temps.