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Tyler Miller    331

I really have a thing for Seto ceramics.  My mid-fired black raku is an attempt to capture the seto-guro look a little, with a bit more gloss, but I've never been able to find any information in English about the Ki-Seto family of glazes.  The thickly applied, deep fried tofu look is something I really enjoy.  I'd love to know more about the glaze and I'd really appreciate it if anyone could help point me in the direction of some books or articles about it.

 

 I've got Bernard Leach's yellow seto, but it's more thin and runny than tofu-like.

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jrgpots    231

I'm fasinated with the ash glazes as well. Are you trying to make the ki seto glazes with chestnut bark. If so, where on earth are you getting the bark? And what is so special about the chestnut bark anyway?

 

I thought all of the recipes were a closely guarded secret.

 

Teach me more...

 

Jed

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Tyler Miller    331

I don't have any chestnut bark ash.  I don't even know what its chemistry would look like.   :(  My only experiments have been limited to one known recipe which is attributed to Bernard Leach:  Woodash 50, yellow ocher 25, custer feldspar 25.  I wasn't thrilled with the result.  I've been tempted to play with it, and see what I can figure out, but when I do this I tend to wander away from the original intent and into something else.

 

 Most firewood around here is white ash (fraxinus americana) because of the emerald ash borer, so that's what I have the most access to.

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JBaymore    1,432

Tyler,

 

One of my high level award winning type friends in Japan is a Ki-Seto master.  I'll see if he is willing to talk.

 

Are you on Facebook?

 

best,

 

...............john

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Tyler Miller    331

Generally most of what I fire is cone 6-8 reduction.  I've been playing with cone 1 a lot lately and cone 4.  Whatever gets the job done, I guess.  Always reduction, though.

 

Edit: The Leach recipe above is for oxidation, I fired in reduction to see what would happen anyway.

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JBaymore    1,432

Tyler,

 

Here is what my friend in Japan shared about Ki-Seto glaze that he said I could share.  He did not invite direct email communications with you... which is quite a normal response...... and I will not press it.  What he gave is a very typical Japanese kind of answer to such overt questions.  They have a distinct belief about how one appropriately learns about ceramics (and other crafts).  Remember things like 7 year apprenticeships...and stuff like only wedging clay for a year.  Things in Japan are not often directly said.  So 'read between the lines' here.

 

"John san Ohayo gozaimasu. John Kizeto glaze is just simple ash-glaze.

The recipe is around "Ash : Feldspar = 50 : 50 .

Slow cooling and lower firing is important to get Kizeto-skin.

Also fine-sandy high refractory white clay is required.  That all !

There is nothing any more.  I told you the Secret of Kizeto already. 

This is my answer.  Nobody taught me those.  I did not ask to somebody.

I asked only to Old original Kizeto.

Kizeto is the most difficult one, I think.  True-Kizeto makers are very few.

I think, true-Kizeto makers got right answer separately by trial and error.

The best way to get good results is only to pile up the experiences.

Old Kizeto taught me only.  Inference and observation for original Kizeto is only a way to right answer."

 

So there you have it straight from a mid-sixty year old potter who makes some of the most literally accurate Ki-Seto glazes I have seen.  A lesson in Ki-Seto... and a lesson in learning about ceramics.

 

Cutting to the chase........ you now have been given the basics you need and the primary source resources........ so get to work :) .

I'm reminded yet again of the Hamada Shoji quote I have as my tagline on Facebook:  "Clay and wheel;  they teach us."

 

best,

 

.......................john

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Tyler Miller    331

John, I'm thrilled with that answer.  Thank you for taking the time to ask your friend.  It's given me exactly what I was hoping for in the form of a starting point--no step by step instructions, just an idea of the goal and where to begin.  

 

I will get to work and pile up my experiences.   :)

 

-Tyler

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synj00    17

Interesting topic. From what I gather all the traditional old school glazes everyone looks for are based on readily available (from the area) materials.When researching the Korean Green Brown Glaze I found this

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=TD_lsYAtoS4C&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=green+brown+korean+pottery&source=bl&ots=XVownrkDpB&sig=-OD_zQUBzeM5lXTqgM4dbErqZ6A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gwpgU9fnNqPB2wWD3oH4Cw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=green%20brown%20korean%20pottery&f=false

 

The body was course grained clay and the glaze was made from yellow sand widely distributed on the west coast of the peninsula mixed with wood ash from the kilns.The mixture percentages though doesnt really say.

 

Here in the southeast we have PINE trees. BOY do we have pine trees. I wonder if its possible to use the ash from pine straw mixed with feldspar to create a glaze of any interest. Any ideas?

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jrgpots    231

Interesting topic. From what I gather all the traditional old school glazes everyone looks for are based on readily available (from the area) materials.When researching the Korean Green Brown Glaze I found this

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=TD_lsYAtoS4C&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=green+brown+korean+pottery&source=bl&ots=XVownrkDpB&sig=-OD_zQUBzeM5lXTqgM4dbErqZ6A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gwpgU9fnNqPB2wWD3oH4Cw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=green%20brown%20korean%20pottery&f=false

 

The body was course grained clay and the glaze was made from yellow sand widely distributed on the west coast of the peninsula mixed with wood ash from the kilns.The mixture percentages though doesnt really say.

 

Here in the southeast we have PINE trees. BOY do we have pine trees. I wonder if its possible to use the ash from pine straw mixed with feldspar to create a glaze of any interest. Any ideas?

I don't see why it would not work. Pine ash is frequently used, so pine needle ash would work. The big question. Is what color it will be. Please try it out and post results. By-the-way the age of the needles will make difference as may the season of collection. Green needles are more acidic than dry needle, so that might change your results. It sounds like cool research project for you.

 

Jed

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Tyler Miller    331

Well, I finally got around to testing some tiles for this glaze.  I made four tiles to test the 50:50 ash: feldspar hypothesis.  I used an ash from a typical mix of carolingian hardwoods from the area.  The test tiles were as follows: K1 50% ash, 50 custer spar, K2 50% ash, 50% minspar 200, and K3 50% ash, 50% neph. sy.. K4 was my control, a kiseto coloured, high gloss glaze I've had for a while and know works--1/3 custer spar, 1/3 ash, 1/3 clay from my land, with a 5% addition of silica at 325 mesh.  I fired to cone 6, hypothesizing that "lower temperatures" meant somewhere between cone 6 and 8.

 

K1--no desirable result.  Glaze crawled, but failed to mature

K2--a matte finish, with dark spots, not quite mature.  Fine craze I'm not a fan of.  Further testing at cone 7-8 required.

K3--closest to kiseto "skin, but very fine craze.  Right look and colour.

K4--Glossy, smooth, right colour, less crazed than K3 or K2.

 

The crazing is of course unsurprising, given that the only two ingredients are wood ash and feldspar--both very high COE, and firing lower only makes it worse.  More thickly applied, I think the K2 and K3 have a great deal of potential.

 

I'll post a photo to my gallery, I'd love to hear your input about which looks closest, and how I could modify my process to get an even closer result.

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Biglou13    202

http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/gallery/image/4299-kiseto-tests/

 

pics are a bit dark

what kind of clay?

the fedspar in japan is different, so im told

i have a big rock from custer im trying to figure out how to mill it down in a traditional sense, without moving stream side

did you ash give it that yellow

that 50 50 recipe sounds like trouble.....

take some pics in better light please

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Tyler Miller    331

Why's it seem like trouble, Lou?  Sorry about the photos, best I can do without washing out the colour.  They're accurate to how they look IRL, the background's just dark.

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jrgpots    231

When I did 50% ash 50% feldspar I had a hard time getting a full melt up to cone 7, but I found 60% ash and 40% feldspar melted better.

 

I like you color

 

Jed

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Tyler Miller    331

Big Lou, thick application is next.  I suspect the relatively high alumina in the glaze might help with the running.  It seems to sit pretty still in thin applications, we'll see about thick.  Might be a good time to break out the wadding and grinder. ;)

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"Fine sandy high refractory clay is required"

 

Nothing mentioned is without importance. We tend to adjust glazes for fit, rather than clay bodies here to deal with crazing. But would a Japanese master?

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Tyler Miller    331

Got it covered, Diesel, the clay I'm using is the closest I can get.   :)  I think in this glaze the crazing is to be tolerated.  Not much can be done in an ash and feldspar glaze--both ingredients have such high coe's it would be hard to fit it to any body at all.

 

What I've been fussing about today and last night was the silica content of the glaze.  All three 50/50 mixes yield a very low silica glaze, below the limits for even low fire glazes, especially the blend with neph. sy.  I'm tempted to add 5% silica, but it was more of an exercise in fanning the flames of self-doubt to run it through a glaze simulator, and I should just accept that this glaze falls outside limits.  

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Biglou13    202

With few conversations I've had with John B. San . A lot of things in japan bend, break, even shatter modern pottery rules and thinking. Potters of 100 years past didn't think out side of box........the box did not yet exist.

The ki seto potter as most traditional potters use local; clays, glaze ingredients, kilns , and fuel, might as well add local traditions and knowledge.

The mino feldspar is much different than American feldspar.

I read some about this, lee love might be a go to guy for this information.

 

What's the formula for leach seto?

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jrgpots    231

If you want to increase silica in the glaze, use ash from faster growing plants, rice husk for example. Ash from any monocotyledon plant( where the veins in the leaves are parallel) such as grass, bamboo, cattails will have higher amount of silica which may be suffient to reduce/prevent crazing.

 

Jed

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JBaymore    1,432

With Ki-Seto ignore the "science".  With a lot of traditional glazes... ignore the science.  ("Reach out with your feelings, Luke".)  The only "measureing stick" that was used traditionally was the eyeball and the piece in typical useage.  Since there are no toxic materials in the glaze... if it is "low silica" or not is not any kind of health issue........ and the Japanese aesthtic accepted (and accepts) the change in object over time (glaze changing sue to instability) as a part of its natural life.

 

Technically that interesting surface in the "best" stuff....... is a techinical defect.  Just like the pinholing in the best shino glazes.

 

The Ki Seto I've seen has faint crazing evident.

 

best,

 

.......................john

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