Stewart Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I have a small, electric Euclid's kiln and want your opinion on whether a conversion to a mini soda kiln would to feasible or even possible to achieve? Not a lot of material out there about small conversions. Thanks, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyT Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Probably :-). What size is the kiln? I've converted electric kilns of around 6 cubic feet in size to the usual updraft style using propane and soda. I tested the concept with one that was only 2 cu ft but had more trouble with keeping the temperature steady and even. Maybe others have experiences they can share, too, there's a lot of people with kiln experience here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Is this still going to use the elements for heating or are you thinking gas? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I saw one made by Jason Briggs at the Appalachia Center for Crafts. He laid it side ways and used gas for fuel. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 The kiln is about 4 cubic feet and I was planning on using gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Go for it I say- Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 The IFB lining will be attacked by the soda... but you'll ge a number of firings out of it. If the unit was cheap... think of it as a cost of doing soda firing when if you did NOT do it.... you wouldn't be able to do. best, ....................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyT Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 The floor takes the brunt of the damage if you introduce soda in any way that drips or falls down. If you do that, I would take an old kiln shelf and line the entire floor or the appropriate areas, otw it will eat it's way through the soft brick rather rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 You could coat it with the Zircon /colloidal silica recipe I posted a while back-this also will add life to it. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Using the body of the kiln is one thing but you do need to do addtional work. As Mark says you need to protect the brick, using mark's Zircon /colloidal silica recipe or ITC or a coating of slag resistant castable. You need a flu, chimney, burner ports, salt ports,etc. All you have is a rough start. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyT Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I don't know about the physical requirements for natural gas at normal house pressures, but with propane (a barbecue tank) and a venturi (mk750 or similar small sized plain venturi), a burner port is a hole cut into it [the side] and the chimney is a hole cut in the top. I run mine as an updraft and have no problem controlling reduction. Although I don't use any sort of oxygen monitor, I feel like I get oxidation when I need it, and reduction is of course easy to get in a fuel kiln. Adjusting the damper does more than affect the conditions for your glazes, it also helps you use your fuel effectively. Many people recommend placing a shelf inside the kiln just below the 'chimney' hole to reflect heat back in, but I like to instead entirely cover the hole with part of a kiln shelf supported on 1 inch posts around the kiln. I 'adjust the damper' by leaning firebricks on it to partially block the effective opening. It's easy and works well to keep the top from cooling too quickly. And you don't need to plan for extra posts on your top ware shelf. As an added bonus, you have a number of warm bricks that can be used to warm a water bath to keep the propane tank from chilling down too fast if you are running the regulator at high pressure from a single 5 gallon tank. I run my venturi up to 6psi (which I think is much higher than natural gas pressure) and it is able to draw quite a lot of air. You would probably be able to fire 4 cu ft to cone 10 on a single tank, but if you go this route, I'd have a backup tank just in case. A disadvantage of the propane torch setup I use is that the flame enters from the side at the bottom and the first shelf is 4 - 5 inches above the kiln floor. Of course, for a soda kiln, you can use this space to load your soda (I do this). I am following Mark's (and others') advice to coat my brick to protect it, (colloidal silica/zircon or ITC) but Laguna has been slow to fill my order for zircon recently so I don't have direct experience with this. I think you'll have a great time if you try it. warmly, Lily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 One way to help slow down freezing propane tanks is to have them plumbed to work two tanks in tandem for one burner. I have used this system for over ten years for firing raku at workshops and on my one kilns. Also make sure you have a regulator on the tank and a burner with the right BTU output. Otherwise you could either wait for days trying hit hit temperature or you could send too much propane out the chimney. For a soft brick well insulated kiln you need about 30,000 btu's /hour per cubic foot at ^10. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Thank you very much for your input. Would you suggest the burner port on and the chimney on the same side of the kiln? Thanks, Stewart I don't know about the physical requirements for natural gas at normal house pressures, but with propane (a barbecue tank) and a venturi (mk750 or similar small sized plain venturi), a burner port is a hole cut into it [the side] and the chimney is a hole cut in the top. I run mine as an updraft and have no problem controlling reduction. Although I don't use any sort of oxygen monitor, I feel like I get oxidation when I need it, and reduction is of course easy to get in a fuel kiln. Adjusting the damper does more than affect the conditions for your glazes, it also helps you use your fuel effectively. Many people recommend placing a shelf inside the kiln just below the 'chimney' hole to reflect heat back in, but I like to instead entirely cover the hole with part of a kiln shelf supported on 1 inch posts around the kiln. I 'adjust the damper' by leaning firebricks on it to partially block the effective opening. It's easy and works well to keep the top from cooling too quickly. And you don't need to plan for extra posts on your top ware shelf. As an added bonus, you have a number of warm bricks that can be used to warm a water bath to keep the propane tank from chilling down too fast if you are running the regulator at high pressure from a single 5 gallon tank. I run my venturi up to 6psi (which I think is much higher than natural gas pressure) and it is able to draw quite a lot of air. You would probably be able to fire 4 cu ft to cone 10 on a single tank, but if you go this route, I'd have a backup tank just in case. A disadvantage of the propane torch setup I use is that the flame enters from the side at the bottom and the first shelf is 4 - 5 inches above the kiln floor. Of course, for a soda kiln, you can use this space to load your soda (I do this). I am following Mark's (and others') advice to coat my brick to protect it, (colloidal silica/zircon or ITC) but Laguna has been slow to fill my order for zircon recently so I don't have direct experience with this. I think you'll have a great time if you try it. warmly, Lily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Thank you very much! Stewart One way to help slow down freezing propane tanks is to have them plumbed to work two tanks in tandem for one burner. I have used this system for over ten years for firing raku at workshops and on my one kilns. Also make sure you have a regulator on the tank and a burner with the right BTU output. Otherwise you could either wait for days trying hit hit temperature or you could send too much propane out the chimney. For a soft brick well insulated kiln you need about 30,000 btu's /hour per cubic foot at ^10. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyT Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Hi, Stewart, I have my burner port on the side of the kiln just above the floor, and the flue/exit port is a hole cut into the lid of the kiln. I'm not actually sure of the configuration of your Euclid, I'm thinking it's a standing cylinder, so you can cut a hole there (drill to start, tin snips to cut, and saw of series of drilled holes is one way to get through the shell layers) I suppose you could try a chimney flue at the bottom of the kiln (and you might need a stack in that case, though I'm not sure), but I don't know that there's enough room for a bagwall in such a small kiln and there could then be problems getting the top of the kiln to temp. Does anyone reading this know? Of course there's nothing to keep you from trying both, just save any soft brick pieces and you can glue them back in (I like a mix of fireclay and sawdust as brick 'glue'). In fact, don't forget to save the burner port brick because you'll need to plug that up some way during the cool down. Sorry, I noticed I was a little unclear in my original post about the kiln shelf damper - it sits on the lid of the kiln in a top loading cylinder configuration. Feel free to ask specific questions to clarify. I remember how nervous I was before my first conversion, but once you do a couple, it's pretty straightforward to get it working :-). Marcia's idea of having a "Y" to connect two tanks so each has only half the flow rate is the standard way to do it right - I was just cheap and the connector and hose is expensive for my situation. Don't forget that propane tubing needs to be checked frequently for weaknesses or leaks, particularly if they are exposed to sunlight. The 5 gal bbq propane tanks must always remain upright because otherwise liquid propane may jet out the relief valve, causing a fire/explosion hazard. If you buy used propane tanks meant for another use, be sure you know that you are hooking your burner to the vapor and not the liquid output of the tank. Putting liquid propane into a gas appliance is a good way to ruin your day and lots of other stuff, to say the least. You should have enough power with this setup to get your kiln to cone 10 in well under 6 hours, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it unless you know what phase your clay/glaze is in. -Lily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I put my burners in the same side of the kiln as the chimney on larger kilns. Since I don't know how you are situating the cylinder, I can't say. On sprung arch kilns and car kilns I put the buners in the back so I don't bang them when loading. I like the drafte configuration of this as well, and built kilns using this system for 30+ years. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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