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Crack filling--Magic Water and Paper Clay?


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#21 yedrow

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:18 PM

Cool, I'm glad it worked out for you and I appreciate your sharing your experiments with us!

#22 Mark C.

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:38 PM

Nelly
We fire a 35 cubic foot car kiln once a week with a bisque then a glaze (cone 10) we see cracks- knock stuff off and toss in the trash pottery on a regular basis. We have leaned after 39 years what works and what does not and what may work. We as you strife for perfect pots but at the volume I produce things can go sideways and there is some loss rate. I never bisque twice any pot ever for me its a time space waste.
I repair pots with Aztex High Fire mender(you mix this with your clay body really works well)bisque fix and sp-mender by Amaco and claymaker XL Plus refractory cement.
We fill cracks or toss the pot-attach thumb spots on handles or other items. After a while you learn what can and cannot be done in ceramics in terms of repair. Pie plate rim cracks are a toss it out deal.
If we fix it we glaze and fire it same day-if its in green state we fix and bisque it.
As far as runs we all strife for zero but my bench grinder and two dremel tools get a work out at times. Thats just part of ceramics.
Here is todays bisque at 9 am and glaze loaded about 6 pm-this is what happens almost every friday here-fire Saturday unload Monday-
The one thing in ceramics is you cannot count on it till its done.
Mark
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#23 Nelly

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:10 PM

Dear Mark,

Yup, that is a LOT of pots. I guess I do expect some cracking and I am pretty fastidious about what is waste worthy and what isn't. I do, now, have a shard pile. It is my own pile and not that of a studio of potters so it is clear what I waste and don't. Like you, I have got to know how far I can push certain clay forms and what will work or will fire. Given that this was my first time working with students, I was filled with angst. They all want their piece to turn out well and as the teacher, you too want these same things for them. All and all, I think I am happy. The one crack is in a place between the eyes. Rather than fix it or try to patch it, I think I will suggest she utilize it in her design. You know something like using it for its artistic merit in making facial glasses on her piece. The broken nose that I repaired with a different colored clay, I will suggest gently that she could do something like maybe a harlequin design. All and all though, I am happy. Thanks for the good words of advice regarding knowing when to keep and things and when to throw the towel in so to speak. It is important to realize this and after all, as I say to myself, "it is just mud." Thanks for the pics! Nelly

#24 MaryMaude

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:36 AM


Just repair it and glaze. Let it dry in between, and let it dry well after glazing, before firing.



Does anyone use Magic Mender?


I’ve used Magic Mender for fixing hairline cracks with perfect results. I’ve also successfully used Magic Mender to fix slightly wider hairline cracks by adding ground up bits of bisque ware to the Magic Mender.


Art proves the soul.

#25 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:08 PM

That is a good site. I have used paper cal to repair both green and bisque ware.
I use a toilet paper and clay body recipe with vinegar, karo syrup and a little water.
For bisque repair I wet the bisqued area very well and then add the paper clay. It works.
Marcia

Here is where I got the original spooze recipe. I have added paper pulp, about 20% of the dry clay in quantity.
Peggy Herr was an early clay art participant. She developed this recipe. She died in 2006.I add paper pulp to this.about 20% to the clay portion.
This is her recipe.

1/3 parts dry clay powdered....any body...preferably the one you are using
with no grog
1/3 parts heavy karo syrup
1/3 parts white distilled vinegar

A drop of hydrogen peroxide to keep it from spoiling...it will bubble for a
few minutes and then settle down. if you dont add that the sugar goes bad
and smells awful in about a day.




#26 Nelly

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:38 PM


That is a good site. I have used paper cal to repair both green and bisque ware.
I use a toilet paper and clay body recipe with vinegar, karo syrup and a little water.
For bisque repair I wet the bisqued area very well and then add the paper clay. It works.
Marcia

Here is where I got the original spooze recipe. I have added paper pulp, about 20% of the dry clay in quantity.
Peggy Herr was an early clay art participant. She developed this recipe. She died in 2006.I add paper pulp to this.about 20% to the clay portion.
This is her recipe.

1/3 parts dry clay powdered....any body...preferably the one you are using
with no grog
1/3 parts heavy karo syrup
1/3 parts white distilled vinegar

A drop of hydrogen peroxide to keep it from spoiling...it will bubble for a
few minutes and then settle down. if you dont add that the sugar goes bad
and smells awful in about a day.




Dear Marcia,

I am wondering if this will fill a hairline crack? Would I have to rebisque? My understanding is that with any crack there is an expansion factor (i.e., when you add this mixture to the crack it can grow or deepen). This is why I am pretty sure you are talking about strong saturation of the affected area and then filling to the best of your ability the crack. I would bet you also wrap this well while it dries. I will wait and ask her what she thinks and will think about this recipe.

Either way, I will take it down in my book for safekeeping to use in the future. As I said, I am guessing Karo syrup is the same thing as good Beehive syrup here in Canada. It is nothing special but the stuff you buy at the supermarket. Similarly, I have not looked at the label of vinegar but I am guessing that this too is the same (i.e., distilled vinegar). The white stuff.

I will write it down for future reference. Thank you for your help too. This forum is soooooo great for me. I feel I am not far from a community who understands the questions I would normally ask in a studio filled with experienced potters. It has been great.

Nancy

#27 yedrow

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:22 AM

Mark, thats a nice pour spout on the bowl in the middle of the load, left-hand picture.

If the ware has enough pour water in it I just do with it as I wish and keep the drafts off of it while its drying. If it's bone dry or bisqued I trash it. As a rule I can make another pot much easier than spending time fussing with a broken pot. Pottery rule #1, never fall in love with any given piece. The fickle thing will jilt you every time. That being said, beginning potters should ignore rule #1 until they've experienced the sweet sting of unrequited art a few times at least.

#28 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:15 AM



That is a good site. I have used paper cal to repair both green and bisque ware.
I use a toilet paper and clay body recipe with vinegar, karo syrup and a little water.
For bisque repair I wet the bisqued area very well and then add the paper clay. It works.
Marcia

Here is where I got the original spooze recipe. I have added paper pulp, about 20% of the dry clay in quantity.
Peggy Herr was an early clay art participant. She developed this recipe. She died in 2006.I add paper pulp to this.about 20% to the clay portion.
This is her recipe.

1/3 parts dry clay powdered....any body...preferably the one you are using
with no grog
1/3 parts heavy karo syrup
1/3 parts white distilled vinegar

A drop of hydrogen peroxide to keep it from spoiling...it will bubble for a
few minutes and then settle down. if you dont add that the sugar goes bad
and smells awful in about a day.




Dear Marcia,

I am wondering if this will fill a hairline crack? Would I have to rebisque? My understanding is that with any crack there is an expansion factor (i.e., when you add this mixture to the crack it can grow or deepen). This is why I am pretty sure you are talking about strong saturation of the affected area and then filling to the best of your ability the crack. I would bet you also wrap this well while it dries. I will wait and ask her what she thinks and will think about this recipe.

Either way, I will take it down in my book for safekeeping to use in the future. As I said, I am guessing Karo syrup is the same thing as good Beehive syrup here in Canada. It is nothing special but the stuff you buy at the supermarket. Similarly, I have not looked at the label of vinegar but I am guessing that this too is the same (i.e., distilled vinegar). The white stuff.

I will write it down for future reference. Thank you for your help too. This forum is soooooo great for me. I feel I am not far from a community who understands the questions I would normally ask in a studio filled with experienced potters. It has been great.

Nancy

It is best to minimize whatever you are adding to the bisque. Only saturate the surface with water before you apply a mixture to the area needed. try not to go beyond that. The water is needed to dampen the surface to slow the absorption rate.
Marcia

#29 morah

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:26 PM

Dear All,

I have just unloaded the kiln. The braid did stay attached with the layers of paper clay and magic water. All looks well except a crack developed where I never expected it to on this piece. Perhaps, like someone said on this forum, the crack was there when it went into the kiln and I just didn't see it?? All and all, I am quite pleased at the result. I will, however, be cautious in handling this piece until after it is 100% glazed and fired for good. ;) Thank you for all the great advice one and all. Even the thin pieces as directed (i.e., bed of sand and tile) turned out well. Great advice. Nelly


Just wondering- I've been giving ceramics classes to kids, and as you can imagine we have a lot of breakage. Since I'm a beginner myself, I've never even heard of most of the compounds you've mentioned, let alone have a clue how to obtain them. I've been repairing everything with a lot of clear glaze- I've been using it like glue and supporting it with a raw clay slab or even a rolled up paper towel (when the rest of the project isn't sticky). So far it's been working really well. From what you've all been saying it sounds like I've just been lucky. What would be the simplest thing for me to use for repairs of the kids' small projects (things like the legs of a caterpillar that came off, or a handle on a little cup, or a cookie cutter shape that cracked in half, etc.) If you could give me a really simple recipe that's easy I would really appreciate it. And if there are any other ingredients can you please explain- I have no idea what paper clay might be, or gum, or many of the other things you've mentioned.

#30 Darcy Kane

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 06:10 PM

This week I had a small blow out on the side of a bowl when I took it out of the bisque fire. I decided to experiment and see what I could do with it after reading this thread. I shredded some toilet paper into a container, put in 2 tablespoons of rice wine vinegar because that is what I had, and some runny slip made from the clay body. i whipped it all together with a hand blender and "had at it" as we say. I painted it onto the piece, pushed the small blow out slab onto it and set it on a shelf to dry. I left it to sit overnight and today took the dremel tool to the edges to smooth it out. I was throughly prepared to toss the whole works but much to my amazement the repair held tight! Who knew! So tomorrow I will glaze it up and put it in the kiln.

#31 Alteredclay

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

I'm pretty irritated at myself!! Look what happened!! I should know better. Is there any chance of a fix?

Yes, bone dry!!!!!!

 



#32 Alteredclay

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

I'm pretty irritated at myself!! Look what happened!! I should know better. Is there any chance of a fix?

Yes, bone dry!!!!!!

 



#33 Alteredclay

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:56 PM

Wow, what happened to my post? Let's try again w/ the photos

 

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#34 Alteredclay

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:58 PM

Here's another view. I am going to try the mixture of dry clay, paper, vinegar. What have I got to lose?

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