Duncan Kiln

[Rferguson61]

Is anyone familiar with Duncan kilns?  I got an EA1020-2 over the weekend and I tried looking on the Paragon website for literature on it but I can’t find that model number. For a wiring diagram and exploded view I can find info for a DA1020-2, DE1020-2, EA1020-6 (this is the closest one I find but I don’t know what the suffix indicates and this one is different). The manual is less specific, I found one for the ES and EA series so I assume it must cover the one I have. Any help would be appreciated. The person who had this kiln before me tried to wire the controller from a different kiln in series with the one but that will be a different post. 

[Bill Kielb]

Sorry I can’t get an exact diagram for you, but can suggest this possibility: (If) this is the model group that had automatic timers. The 4500 & 4300 timers were used in conjunction with high voltage driven relay(s). This scheme has caused firing confusion for many, the timing relays are non existant or very expensive at this point.  

The present day successful rewire is often to scrap all the semi automation control and simply install infinite switches in each section and operate as a manual kiln. I mention this because if it requires re-wiring due to others attempting to re-wire it may be far easier just to gut these controls and move to the infinite switches rather than to try and restore the old semi automatic scheme first.

my reading of  suffix designation:

• -2 = 240v
• -4 = 208v
• -6 = two phases of a three phase service, multiple voltages, potentially including a neutral for control voltage
• -8 = 50 hz, UK voltages

Not sure that helps but rewiring to functional as opposed to trying to rewire to original is something I would suggest you explore in depth.

[neilestrick]

I'm with Bill. If it's already a mess, gut the controls and put in simple infinite switches or 3-heat switches. Which you can use will depend on the amperage draw of each section of the kiln and how the elements are wired.

[Rferguson61]

11 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

Not sure that helps but rewiring to functional as opposed to trying to rewire to original is something I would suggest you explore in depth.

I am guessing that is what needs to happen. Full disclosure we were given this kiln and it needs to work. I am guessing it was attempted to be rewired to bypass the issues you talked about. There’s another controller wired in before the controller on the kiln.  
 

The flow of energy would go as follows: wall outlet > power cord > other kiln controller* > power cord > Duncan controller** > elements. 
*Gare kiln “WPF-2601” panel with Perfect Fire digital controller (DTP-56DC-E) 

**Controller on Duncan panel is Kiln Sitter LT-3K

Obviously that is a simplified explanation of how it’s running (or intended to run). I’m not convinced this set up will work the way they have it but need to do some more research. Just hard to find information on such old products, nothing even comes up when I search the Gare part number. 

[neilestrick]

17 minutes ago, Rferguson61 said:

The flow of energy would go as follows: wall outlet > power cord > other kiln controller* > power cord > Duncan controller** > elements. 
*Gare kiln “WPF-2601” panel with Perfect Fire digital controller (DTP-56DC-E) 

Ah, so you've got a wall mounted external digital controller. In that case, if the digital controller box is functional, you could gut the kiln control box and wire the elements directly to the power cord by installing a terminal block in the box. Switches aren't necessary if the controller works.

The Perfect-Fire was discontinued in 1999, so it's very old. Depending on how it's set up- relays, transformer, etc- you may want to consider replacing it with a modern controller.

Post a couple pics of the setup. If possible, open the box that houses the controller and let us know what's in there. Theoretically there's a power transformer and a relay of some sort.

[Rferguson61]

7 hours ago, neilestrick said:

Post a couple pics of the setup. If possible, open the box that houses the controller and let us know what's in there. Theoretically there's a power transformer and a relay of some sort.

It kind of looks like that was the intent by the previous owner. I have included the guy of the Duncan control box, the face of the Perfect Fire, and then a couple pictures of the inside of the Perfect Fire. When looking at the cover of the Perfect Fire the grey cable on the left goes to the Duncan control box, black on the right is the power cord.

[neilestrick]

It looks like I figured it would, so that's good! If the digital controller works, then go ahead and use it if it has the functionality you want. Otherwise you can look into a replacement that will fit into the hole. Chances are the current Evenheat controller will fit the hole since they took over Gare. You'll want to make sure that's a 24 volt transformer, but it appears to be. It looks like they're using the small relay as a pilot for the big mercury relay, which is a pretty common setup for high amperage relays. All in all a pretty standard setup.

As for the kiln box, it's got all the stuff that make Duncan kilns annoying. The expensive parts (and what complicates the system) are those two timers/relays at the bottom of the box. So if you want to simplify everything, use the Sitter as a terminal block and just wire the elements directly to the block. You've got two wires feeding each element set, so one wire to the left side, one to the right side. Unhook everything else from the upper screws on the Sitter except for the wires for the timer and the pilot light which are the thin black wires. You can still use the Sitter as a backup to the digital controller, which is a good safety setup.

[Rferguson61]

Thank you SO much Neilestrick! Once I get the get the 240V outlet installed I will test it out and make sure it works. If not then I’ll look at other options. I am assuming that since they have the Perfect Fire the Duncan control is not functional so I will wire it how your suggested above. Thank you again!

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Rferguson61 said:

I am assuming that since they have the Perfect Fire the Duncan control is not functional so I will wire it how your suggested above.

It looks like all the relays/timers are still wired up, so they may well work. However in order to use the digital controller you'd have to put the kiln controls in manual mode so that the digital system is in control, otherwise those timers would compete with the digital system.

Any wires that are not longer used should be completely removed, or wrapped together with zip ties and the ends taped so there are no chances of bare wires touching live current. If you don't plan to use that system ever again just remove it all.