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#41 justanassembler

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:51 AM

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I'm sorry to tell you Chris, but Cone 28 is where it is all happening. And real potters do all of that construction work of studio, wheel, kiln, and shelves without the use of those corrupting influences: power tools. But keep at it..... in 2,000 years you might be getting close to acheiving this goal.

best,

.......................john :P ;)
[/quote

hate to break it to you john, just ask the guys at coortek ceramic--cone 32 is where all the action is these days ;)

#42 JBaymore

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:29 AM

hate to break it to you john, just ask the guys at coortek ceramic--cone 32 is where all the action is these days ;)




Darn it....... I just can't keep up! B) Know anywhere where I can find more wood?

best,

...................john
John Baymore
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#43 yedrow

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

Lucilla,

I don't disagree with you. For me personally, I primarily care about two things, what I think about it, and what the customer thinks about it. My sole objective is to create a piece that is cherished by its owner. I don't get much more than that out of this craft. I do feel pride when someone/anyone likes my work. And I like to see what people like. But aesthetic input from another potter, in my limited experience, tends to be of little value. It's like an animal feeding off of its own species. Its a feedback loop. I think this is where a lot of the group think rises from in the craft. I see genuine work out there, but there is this huge back channel of similar work that draws influence, seemingly, from the same well. I personally try my best to keep away from this, especially when it is being forced upon me. I had a guy one time spend a few months telling me my handles looked like something a school kid did and trying to get me to imitate his extruded handles. I say, stick to your own style. It is the only thing you have any chance of being best at.

Joel.

#44 Edith Marie

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:20 PM


Coke can't criticize Pepsi. Ralph Lauren can't criticize Betsy Johnson; Arnon Milchan can't criticize Quentin Tarantino, why? Because they are in the same businesses the critique cannot be trusted. Ergo potters can't criticize potters.
Notice how it doesn't sit well with potters. We can't take it, especially from each other. Many of us get jealous and angry at other's potential successes. We are all vying for the same pottery dollar.

In other venues such as movies, plays, art, books and restaurants the critics are not writing to the ‘makers’ of the ‘works’ but to the public. Not to say the maker’s will not read the reviews it affects their bottom lines; they most certainly do. But I will never ‘personally’ or ‘not personally’ accept a critique from competitors.


Pardon my bluntness but what a bunch of nonsense! It's not only nonsense, it's insulting. I'd wager that Tarantino is more interested in Milchan's critique of Pulp Fiction than he is of Roger Ebert's review even though Ebert's review has more effect on his bottom line. That's all writers groups do is sit around criticizing each others work in great detail. They are doing that to possibly learn something about their own work from people they respect and to help other writers. They have nothing in common with the relationship between Pepsi and Coke. WHEN ONE OF THEM HAS A PUBLISHING SUCCESS THEY THROW A PARTY, NOT A TANTRUM. Potters are the same way. When we fire the only anagama in middle Georgia a dozen or so potters come together to fire it and I don't think a single one of us is hoping our "competition's" pots come out looking bad. Last Spring for the biggest (or maybe second biggest) show in Georgia, one of my "competitor's" kiln broke down. I busted my ass to get her pots fired in my kilns in time for the show, even to the point of leaving a few of my pots out of the show. Recently, I have what may be a big break for me in that a collector who donated an incredibly beautiful collection of 807 pots to the Crocker Museum started a new collection by buying all of my anagama bottles. The first thing I did was introduce him to one of my "competitors" who makes better anagama pots than I do. I'm not bragging about being a nice guy; it's just that those are the examples that spring to mind and I don't know a single potter (except maybe you and, fortunately, I don't really know you) who wouldn't do the same thing for his/her "competition".

Jim



#45 koreyej

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:55 AM


The competition for who is the most "real" potter is one that I am determined to win ... so I have decided to plant my own forest so by the time I build my own studio, wheel, kiln and shelves ... dig my own clay from a local river bank and process it ... mine and grind my own minerals and chemicals .... the forest will be mature enough for me to harvest enough wood to fire the work I will have made in my spare time. I will also be firing to at least Cone 20 so as to have the pleasure of hand chipping clay from shelves.Posted Image



I'm sorry to tell you Chris, but Cone 28 is where it is all happening. And real potters do all of that construction work of studio, wheel, kiln, and shelves without the use of those corrupting influences: power tools. But keep at it..... in 2,000 years you might be getting close to acheiving this goal.

best,

.......................john Posted Image Posted Image


I really appreciate your comments about "real potting". Made me laugh. I have heard a bit of this snobbery over the years and wondered how other potters reacted to it. Glad to know some of you think it is just as ridiculous as I do.

I view it like this: my math teacher used to make us learn how to do calculations by hand. Then we got to use the calculator. It's nice to know how to do some of these things on your own, and have an appreciation of where materials come from, how much energy it takes to fire a kiln, etc. However, it's not cheating to use the calculator (or the electric kiln, or Mason stains, or premade clay, or even a commercial glaze or two). It's efficient.:Dsrc="http://ceramicartsda...t/biggrin.gif">

Korey Averill
ka Studios Pottery

www.kastudios.com


#46 kheicksen

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:53 PM

We are artists and each of us produce something at least a little different from each other with our own personal flair and energy given to our work. Each type of piece appeals to a different kind of person. There is a huge diversity of taste in style. We are not competitors. We are fellow travelers, students and teachers. Being offended and annoyed by critique, unrequested or otherwise, is a waste of your mental space and emotional time. Take it. Learn from it. Perhaps all you will learn is that your work isn't appealing to the sort of person that made that comment. You can use that info to better identify  and target YOUR market. 

 

I don't envy other potters. I admire. I am in awe. I hope to reach their level some day. That does not mean that my work will look anything like their's though or that we would be competing for sales from the same types of customers. 


K. Heicksen

#47 Pompots

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

Criticism form other potters have helped me be a better one.



#48 Benzine

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:20 AM

I'm jealous of other potters and artists in general, but just because I am envious of their work and abilitiy.  But it just makes me want to become a better artist.  I would never bad mouth, or try to diminish another artist's work, when talking to other people. 

 

I have known artists/ art educators, who didn't feel the same way though.  When talking to others, about my work, they'd say "Well that piece wasn't very hard to do", or "He (Myself) doesn't know how to do that".  Basically, they were trying to make themselves look better, by making me look worse.


"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#49 Wyndham

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

This goes under the heading"Where Angels fear to tread"

 

So as not to be misunderstood, an example, not a real life event.

 

A customer says that they have purchased mugs from an unnamed potter. they show you the mug and that in the microwave the mug gets hot and almost burned her fingers. You go on to explain why moisture is in an improperly fired mug and why it burned her. You demo in a microwave that your mug does not heat up.

 

Later at a art fair you see the same potter who does not understand how to properly fire and vitrify  the clay used in their mugs.

 

What is your responsibility, say something, nothing, let the buyer beware.

 

BTW imported talcware from elswhere is also a common problem that customers don't know about, but I digress.

Wyndham



#50 Benzine

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

This goes under the heading"Where Angels fear to tread"

 

So as not to be misunderstood, an example, not a real life event.

 

A customer says that they have purchased mugs from an unnamed potter. they show you the mug and that in the microwave the mug gets hot and almost burned her fingers. You go on to explain why moisture is in an improperly fired mug and why it burned her. You demo in a microwave that your mug does not heat up.

 

Later at a art fair you see the same potter who does not understand how to properly fire and vitrify  the clay used in their mugs.

 

What is your responsibility, say something, nothing, let the buyer beware.

 

BTW imported talcware from elswhere is also a common problem that customers don't know about, but I digress.

Wyndham

You could "Play Dumb" and ask about their work, getting into what type of clay/ glaze/ process they use.  After they tell you, what is already known, you could ask, "Well aren't you concerned about the issues associated with doing that?"

That would be the best way to go about it, in my opinion.  I think informing them, is a good idea.  I'd want to know, if it were me.


"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#51 Wyndham

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:50 PM

I agree and I think sometimes insensitive critices need to think about how others interpet there words. Some are just jerks, but others may not realize how their comments are recieved.

 

I have seen it from both sides but it takes time.

Wyndham



#52 jrgpots

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:08 PM

In the medical arena this is called "jousting." That is to say, making negative comments about your peer in the record, to patients, or colleagues. It is the leading cause of malpractice suits. In any business, including pottery, jousting is and always should be a NO NO.

If you have a concern, have the courtesy to take it to the source outside of earshot of anyone else.

#53 Wyndham

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

"If you have a concern, have the courtesy to take it to the source outside of earshot of anyone else"

 

Mine was an  made up example not a veiled message .

What i was trying to say was that some people are egotist that want to be superior and try to bully others by their unfounded self righteous knowledge.

On the other hand there are beginning potters that want to get their creations out for public acceptance that they may skip learning the fundamental or may have not been taught the basics.

I have spoken with some beginning potters that don't want to be bothers or believe it's beyond their abilities to dig deeper into the craft.

 

These two POV would not matter so much except, the public trust us to know what we are doing. I think the public's use of our functional pottery is the key ,in part,  to this debate

Wyndham



#54 jrgpots

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:05 PM

"If you have a concern, have the courtesy to take it to the source outside of earshot of anyone else"
 
Mine was an  made up example not a veiled message .
What i was trying to say was that some people are egotist that want to be superior and try to bully others by their unfounded self righteous knowledge.
On the other hand there are beginning potters that want to get their creations out for public acceptance that they may skip learning the fundamental or may have not been taught the basics.
I have spoken with some beginning potters that don't want to be bothers or believe it's beyond their abilities to dig deeper into the craft.
 
These two POV would not matter so much except, the public trust us to know what we are doing. I think the public's use of our functional pottery is the key ,in part,  to this debate
Wyndham


I am not good enough yet to sell my wares. I am one of the beginners and may be like a child asking strange questions and giving off comments. I'm here soaking up a lot and am trying to dig into that craft. Please have patience....

#55 Wyndham

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:48 AM

Patience is something that is a side benifit of being a potter. Enjoy the learning of all the different facets of clay. Keep a journal, take notes,find books on clay and devour them..

Find potters that want to share both the clay and glazing, many here are glad to share.

Strange questions?, look at some of my post :) you'll get there.

If you ever get to Seagrove NC there are over 100 potters in the area, most will gladly share their POV and help with your development in clay

Wyndham



#56 jrgpots

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:40 AM


"If you ever get to Seagrove NC there are over 100 potters in the area, most will gladly share their POV and help with your development in clay."

Thanks.

#57 LawPots

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:31 PM

It seems the thrust of the comment is that you can't trust the critques of people in the same business.  This is not quite correct.  You can trust the critiques of others in the same business to be based on their point of view.  This doesn't make the critique inherently untrustworthy.  It does however, mean that when such criticism is recieved, a listener must attempt to understand that point of view and decide if the viewpoint (or critique) reflects the listener's values. If it does, the listener must judge the critque and decide how to change; if it doesn't, the listener can continue on without sparing a thought for it.   






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