griloc Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Is it possible to aplly china paint (780 C) in a bisqued piece of ceramics? Will it seal? I am a newbie, struggling to get information. Checked the old files but could not get what I wanted. I thnak you all for the information shared so far. griloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanB Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Just try the china paints on a bisque sample ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Is it possible to aplly china paint (780 C) in a bisqued piece of ceramics? Will it seal? I am a newbie, struggling to get information. Checked the old files but could not get what I wanted. I thnak you all for the information shared so far. griloc Hello ? China paint is simply an overglaze which is usually fired between 720-840.c depending on the glazed surface that it is applied to. It is composed of the same stain(colour) material that is used for underglaze and body glaze colours. However it has additional flux added that makes it fuse and adhere to the fired work. The overglaze bonds onto but sits on top of the fired glaze surface. When it is fired to the softening point of the glazed surface (this depends on the fusion point of the glaze used however, this is usually between 1120-1180.c for high fired glazes) it actually starts to sink into the glaze and becomes known as INGLAZE. Yes it is indeed possible to apply China Paint to a bisqued piece of ceramic. But here I must point out that that the word bisque has a different meaning for china painters than it has for potters. China painters' bisque refers to the bisque that is used for industry. That means the bisque is high fired to the clay body maturity and the bisque is then non porous. It is then glazed at a much lower temperature.(This is done like this in Industry as porcelain has a tendency to warp and slump at top temperatures due to its pyroplasticity. Getting the warping out of the way before glazing allows for quality control before the added expense and time of glazing). However potters/ceramists ( this is where I assume you fit in) fire their bisque to a much lower temperature ( between approx 950-1040.c depending on the clay body) so that the body is still porous for easier glaze application. Lower fired glazes like Raku and earthenware which can and sometimes are glazed all over, are still notorious for leaking/not being sealed as the initial bisque has not been fired to maturity. My educated guess then is that China paint (which is fired even lower than Raku and E/W glazes) would NOT seal the work even if every spot on the surface (including the base) was covered with overglaze/china paint as the clay body has not reached maturity (zero porosity) and will permeate through the very thin layer of china paint. However I am intrigued as to why you would be contemplating sealing bisque work with china paint. Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griloc Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Is it possible to aplly china paint (780 C) in a bisqued piece of ceramics? Will it seal? I am a newbie, struggling to get information. Checked the old files but could not get what I wanted. I thnak you all for the information shared so far. griloc Hello ? China paint is simply an overglaze which is usually fired between 720-840.c depending on the glazed surface that it is applied to. It is composed of the same stain(colour) material that is used for underglaze and body glaze colours. However it has additional flux added that makes it fuse and adhere to the fired work. The overglaze bonds onto but sits on top of the fired glaze surface. When it is fired to the softening point of the glazed surface (this depends on the fusion point of the glaze used however, this is usually between 1120-1180.c for high fired glazes) it actually starts to sink into the glaze and becomes known as INGLAZE. Yes it is indeed possible to apply China Paint to a bisqued piece of ceramic. But here I must point out that that the word bisque has a different meaning for china painters than it has for potters. China painters' bisque refers to the bisque that is used for industry. That means the bisque is high fired to the clay body maturity and the bisque is then non porous. It is then glazed at a much lower temperature.(This is done like this in Industry as porcelain has a tendency to warp and slump at top temperatures due to its pyroplasticity. Getting the warping out of the way before glazing allows for quality control before the added expense and time of glazing). However potters/ceramists ( this is where I assume you fit in) fire their bisque to a much lower temperature ( between approx 950-1040.c depending on the clay body) so that the body is still porous for easier glaze application. Lower fired glazes like Raku and earthenware which can and sometimes are glazed all over, are still notorious for leaking/not being sealed as the initial bisque has not been fired to maturity. My educated guess then is that China paint (which is fired even lower than Raku and E/W glazes) would NOT seal the work even if every spot on the surface (including the base) was covered with overglaze/china paint as the clay body has not reached maturity (zero porosity) and will permeate through the very thin layer of china paint. However I am intrigued as to why you would be contemplating sealing bisque work with china paint. Johanna DeMaine http://johanna.demaine.org http://overglaze.info http://allthatissublime.com Thank you so much for your replies. The explanation about onglaze is very good. As to the reason for using onglaze is that I used to work with glass and all my equipment is for glass (including a kiln that fires to 900 C). I have taken some lessons about ceramics but at the moment I am reading a lot in books and the internet. For a while, because of back problems, I am not able to work with glass. I am trying to do ceramics with what I have, so I thought my onglaze glass powders could be an addition to the pieces. The first pieces I tested on did not come out that good. Anyhow, I appreciate your sharing knowledge. Thank you. Griloc an addition to the 900C bisqued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Your kiln temp is stIll a little too low for low fire clays. If I am doing the conversion right, it is about Cone 010 - 09. You might be better off buying the properly fired bisque and working from there since your kiln won't be able to fire the clay to maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thank you so much for your replies. The explanation about onglaze is very good. As to the reason for using onglaze is that I used to work with glass and all my equipment is for glass (including a kiln that fires to 900 C). I have taken some lessons about ceramics but at the moment I am reading a lot in books and the internet. For a while, because of back problems, I am not able to work with glass. I am trying to do ceramics with what I have, so I thought my onglaze glass powders could be an addition to the pieces. The first pieces I tested on did not come out that good. Anyhow, I appreciate your sharing knowledge. Thank you. Griloc an addition to the 900C bisqued Hello I understand from your reply that you wouldn't be able to take your ceramic work to maturity because your kiln only fires to 900.C. However I also understand that you are trying to use the onglaze glass powders that you have. Have you thought about exploring enamelling on metal such as copper in the interim as I am sure they would be usable for this. I have found in my research that much of the work/techniques with onglaze/overglaze on glass, ceramic and metal are similar. It is only the support that is different. A good starting point for this is http://kaiserglass.com/tutorials Enter your email address and request a password. This allows you into the tutorial. There is a very good explanation there of the process. http://www.ganoksin....brary/subject/7 is another good resource especially relevant is the section on enamel painting. Hope this might be of some use. Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griloc Posted April 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Your kiln temp is stIll a little too low for low fire clays. If I am doing the conversion right, it is about Cone 010 - 09. You might be better off buying the properly fired bisque and working from there since your kiln won't be able to fire the clay to maturity. Thank you for your advice! I will keep in mind! I just entered your site. Your tutorials are stimulating. Griloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griloc Posted April 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thank you so much for your replies. The explanation about onglaze is very good. As to the reason for using onglaze is that I used to work with glass and all my equipment is for glass (including a kiln that fires to 900 C). I have taken some lessons about ceramics but at the moment I am reading a lot in books and the internet. For a while, because of back problems, I am not able to work with glass. I am trying to do ceramics with what I have, so I thought my onglaze glass powders could be an addition to the pieces. The first pieces I tested on did not come out that good. Anyhow, I appreciate your sharing knowledge. Thank you. Griloc an addition to the 900C bisqued Hello I understand from your reply that you wouldn't be able to take your ceramic work to maturity because your kiln only fires to 900.C. However I also understand that you are trying to use the onglaze glass powders that you have. Have you thought about exploring enamelling on metal such as copper in the interim as I am sure they would be usable for this. I have found in my research that much of the work/techniques with onglaze/overglaze on glass, ceramic and metal are similar. It is only the support that is different. A good starting point for this is http://kaiserglass.com/tutorials Enter your email address and request a password. This allows you into the tutorial. There is a very good explanation there of the process. http://www.ganoksin....brary/subject/7 is another good resource especially relevant is the section on enamel painting. Hope this might be of some use. Johanna Johanna DeMaine http://johanna.demaine.org http://overglaze.info http://allthatissublime.com Thank you ! All your suggestions are well appreciated. For a while I will stay with naked clay which I love. I did try the onglaze on a ceramic bisqued to 900C. Though it covered the interior and sealed it did not look good. I will just save the powders I have for the future. I stared working with clay to make molds for my glass, but it (clay) is conquering me more each day. I am still fascinated by glass, but have found a new passion. For a while I guess I will invest in this new love. Maybe later , when I am well, I can combine the two in different ways. Johana your wok is beautiful and inspiring . Griloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.