mattb

i dont have natural gas so ill be using propane. probably look into a #100 tank or larger. even on a small gas forge i tend to have issues with small grill propane tanks. i tend to enjoy using a coal forge more, but having the larger tank might bring me back to the gas forge more often. thank you again for all your guidance. it really is appreciated. matt

The more i think about it i do like the idea of a powered single burner. if i plan to run electric for the control panel anyway, i might as well plug in a fan while im at it. ward burners was suggested as a place i look to for information. i have been thoroughly going over the numerous articles and information on that site for the past 2 days. the facebook group was also informative. i would assume ward burners are a reliable and suggested burner, since they were mentioned as a place to gather information. the sticker shock of their burners is not so bad and the fact i wont have to build it myself and chase gremlins is appealing to me. even the additional price of safety addons and 90 degree head, i dont feel as though i should penny pinch. as i stated, frugal but not cheap. with the mb200 and 400 being the same price is there any reason not to just get the largest one , even if it complete overkill, incase i want to go larger in the future? another chimney question. as of now i have it designed to use the current sidewall as the chimney face and lay a brick up leaving a 4.5 inch opening up the center. does the outside wall need to be thicker than say 3.5 inches? 4.5 has me poking past the outer dimensions of the shell. if i can drop this to 3.5 i could enclose the entire chimney. again id like it to look clean, look like it was meant to be there. im not particularly a form over funtion kind of guy, but if i can get form and function to go hand in hand, ill try... but who knows, well im hoping someone knows, maybe im completely off base and should have 9 inch chimney walls and i should build them from hardbrick rather than soft. that would be why im here though, to get the advice and knowledge of those whove already done this. my most recent design. i believe this is what you have me going for neil.

the drawing is looking down from the top or in from the front depending on how you look at the drawing, it has been angled so i could show the inside. im still considering the single burner from the back wall rather than 2 venturi from the bottom due to having to raise the chimney. speaking of chimney, is there any reason i couldnt use say normal pipe stack chimney (not brick, like coal stove) coming off the top to gain the additional height i may need? as in i would have the 45ish inches of brick chimney with the additional as pipe stack? not that i couldnt make a brick chimney that just gets placed on top, just pipe would be lighter and easier to take on and off if i needed to move the kiln or cover it when not in use and inclement weather. I'll continue to research this next question on my own, but figure it cant hurt to ask here. does length of burner matter. I know, i know, i keep trying to keep everything on one side of the kiln, i do this mostly because i just want as clean a look as possible. im not married to the idea, but im sure trying to keep the engagement going... id be willing to bet the length is less of an issue with powered, and more so with venturi due to a long draft. also do they need to be in a straight line, or are bends (90/180) how pipe is run. id also assume my last statement is true here as well. although i guess it might not matter at all as long as there is enough gas pressure to push to the end of the pipe.

this is the start of what I'm envisioning based on your sketch. i plan to go get the dimensions of the electronics bay as well as the under chamber storage to try and get a finished design concept, later today. as for bagwall height, im guessing this may be trial and error, but maybe a recommended starting wouldnt be bad. should the bagwall essentially be level with the first shelf? i know in one post i mentioned when you have minimal space youve got to try and pick up every inch you can, and in another post said I dont mind going smaller on kiln space. this sounds very contradictory, so for maybe future readers i should clarify. when i talk about using every inch available i meant to just not have wasted space. use every inch in its best way, even if that means i get less square footage for shelves, as long as the space is used proportionally my goals will have been achieved. please disregard the soldier brick on the chimney, stupid inventor wouldnt let me turn them sideways (probably my lack of skill with the tool).

Thank you I'll check it out

im going to finish this post as i started it before i had to step out and before you posted your most recent comment, but i do like the ideas youve shown me., but since im trying to learn aswell i figure it wont hurt to ask this question. i am fine with a firing chamber slightly smaller. i am adding 3 drawings/screenshots. the one i believe is how you suggested. the second 2 would put the burner in the center and have a flue on either side that could either run 2 chimneys straight up or they could taper into a single chimney in the center. yes it would require some fabrication and extra brick either way. this is simply a design idea i had to keep everything on one side of the kiln. im aware this is probably overcomplicating things, but again if im not asking questions i wouldnt be learning what works, what doesnt, and hopefully why. i do like youre second drawing of the double burner setup from underneath. i dont remember the height of the storage area under the chamber of the kiln but i believe it is atleast 20 inches, which should give me plenty of room for burners. i may need to see about an additional way to improve draw of air under the kiln if i use venturi burners, but that should be simple enough. yo once again thank you for your time, as well as sharing your ideas.

i had entirely planned to use hard brick for this, but you are correct I could definitely foresee the potential for warping on a 1" split even with the hard bricks, as well as the potential for cracking at the slots either below or on the end wall joints due to one uneven heating of the split surface. i have not had a chance to research here yet but will definitely do so today, as the idea of a single powered burner is a possibility i didnt really consider. in my second post i mentioned that off the top of my head i said a single 200k burner should be sufficient. i used this data to get my number. If you have a soft brick kiln with 9" walls, you'll need: 6,000 - 10,000 BTU/CF for cone 06, 8,000 - 13,000 BTU/CF for cone 6, and 10,000 - 16,000 BTU/CF for cone 10. i then took the high end of 16000 and multiplied by 8.3 for the cubic foot inside the chamber which gives me 133k roughly. i added some additional being as the lining is 8.5 inches but has approx 3/4 inch cutouts on most walls and floors. however i had thought using 2 lower rated burners but stills added together went well above my needed range should allow the kiln to work without having to run at full tilt. the things i seem to be having the most trouble finding out are the draft requirements, as i am not sure how the airflow really works inside of a kiln like this. you have both given me things to consider and later i will take some time and create a new drawing based on the ideas given to me to hopefully be critiqued and pointed in the right direction. this is the reason i came here, to get the advice of those more knowledgeable than me, so thank you again. matt

creativity my friend, route a .5" deep by 1" wide slot in the floor and a 2" deep slot in each end wall for the splits to fit into. use sairset or no. 36 to mortar the entire thing into place. yes if and when the lower shelf needs to be removed and inserted it would need to be done carefully to avoid breaking anything. but hey when you have minimal space you gotta pick up every inch you can. thank you for the burner location information. that was what i was thinking it needed to be.

looks like you beat me to the punch on the chimney question. what kind of cfm would you suggest if i were to build or just purchase a power burner? I'll most definitely be researching this probably before you answer back, but hey it feels more personal getting an answer than just reading things. also if i move to a single burner how would you suggest my layout change for even heating?

as stated im 100% new to gas kilns, so thank you both, as well as anyone else who happens to chime in later. a better drawing, now that im in front of a comp. my thoughts were 4" burner openings with 1 inch on either side of them with a 1 inch bagwall. now that would leave 6 inches in the center. however reading above it sounds like if i have 2 burner ports at 4" i should have 8 inches for the flue? if that is correct i could move the bagwalls over 1 inch and re-center the burner which would then give me 8. now i guess maybe i should ask, what size opening should i have as a burner port opening? im aware this will depend on burner size, but should i shoot for 1 inch wider diameter than the burner nozzle, or maybe 2? knowing this even if it is an average number should help me when determining the built or bought burners. again im a complete newb when it comes to gas kilns, the way i understand it the burners sit outside of the burner port, unlike my gas forge where i stuck the burner down inside the chamber. granted my knowledge on that subject comes mostly from watching youtube videos where people convert top loading kilns. as for chimney height, would the 36ish inches from the bottom of the chamber/flue to the top of the kiln be sufficient? or should i consider that i may need to take it higher? this would determine my fabrication needs on the chimney. granted i can always easily add to it later if need be, but id rather not do it nice because i did it twice, if possible. on my drawing above in haste i completely forgot to consider the 17 inches of brick when i put 24 inches for the depth of the kiln. so the overall depth of the kiln is more in the 40 inch range (not that it matters for the chamber).

Bottom shelf. I figure I'd use hardback as the bagwalls and set the shelf on top of them. According to my research which is incomplete, baso valves seem to be the way to go and I will do more research before making final decisions on plumbing the burners. Propane is what I plan to use. Burners have not been decided on yet, however off the top of my head a single 200k btu should be sufficient, however I figure 2 150-200k burners will be better so I don't need run full tilt. I built my own n/a burners for my gas forge so I'll need to dig out my old notes and I may build my own. Electronics bay runs the depth 24ish inches and the full height of the kiln on the right side. It's more like a closet on the side. It is a bit narrow at about 8 inches so I'll probably have weld some additional sheet metal to surround the entire chimney. I'll probably keep this kiln outdoors so I want to protect the brick. But who knows I may move it indoors after my garage is finished. Chimney, I'll build it out of recycled soft brick from other kilns. It should be rather easy for me to mount the burners and lay the chimney based on the way the electronics bay is. It might be easier to understand if a pic of the kiln was googled. For now here's my phone drawing of how I plan to lay out the inside. Matt

Hello all, First post here, but I've been using it as research for a few months now. Little background I've only been involved with pottery for a bit less than a year now, mostly as a way to give my mostly blind wife a hobby (I personally have to many, or maybe not enough, depending on who you ask, as my new phrase has become, my hobby is collecting hobbies). I've been a refractory bricklayer for many years, and most recently I repair and install electric kilns, as well as work for a ceramics dealer, so building my own tools or modifying other ones is not an issue for me. I recently acquired a amaco ah30 kiln and believe this will be a decent donor kiln for converting to gas. Yes I can and could build one however I'd like, but being the frugal guy I am, this kiln seems to fit the bill for my current wants/needs in terms of cubic feet and price (I was paid to remove it). As for my plans. I plan to run 2 burners coming in from the right side of the kiln front and back pointing towards the left side with the swinging door in the front, (through the electronics bay) with the flue/chimney in the center (running up through the electronics bay to the top). Since I'm 100% new to gas kilns (although I have done gas forges for blacksmithing) there are a couple things I'd like some guidance on. Firstly, size and location of the flue. I'm thinking bottom center essentially in between the 2 bagwalls from the burners, but how large of an opening is suggested for the flue/chimney? secondly target bricks on the left wall, just a hard brick cut at a 45? Thirdly, the kiln has a 20x20 opening between the walls (l/r and f/b), how much room around shelves is recommended? 16x16 shelves with 2 inches around or 18x18 for a 1 inch opening on the perimeter? If the controller still works Ill probably rewire it to just use the thermocouple zone control/monitoring since I wont need 240 for running elements. If not I'll do something else for t/c's. I'm sure I'll find something else I need to ask about, but this should be a good start of conversation. thank you all in advance, matt