STONEWARECAFE

I've inherited two small cress enameling kilns they get up to about 1100 degrees and I've pulled the elements and replaced them but need a good 110 volt switch to manually turn them up for cone 5 test tiles. I don't want to go with solid state relays and a little computer controller just something simple I can take care of while I'm working ... Tried the Potter and brumsfield switches at their lowest setting they still ramp up too fast ... any suggestions? Thanks Ben

Hi I've been making salt and pepper shakers out of slip cast shapes and I don't bother to glaze the inside because clay fired to the correct temperature is completely matured and is basically waterproof. I have looked at the inside of lots of commercial salt and pepper shakers and they're mostly unglazed. I don't know how you plan to poke holes in the top but it is very time consuming to drill them out. I ended up taking finishing nails the ones with the little heads and sharpening those into needles and then drilling out a piece of wood and hammering them in so that they are all level with each other. Then whether it's a three or a four hole or whatever you take that and slide it in while it's leather hard or rather slightly soft it's kind of a fine line. Then I take a pencil and use the eraser end to reach inside and break off any small curls of dry or bisqued clay that may have occurred when you make the holes that way you will know that there aren't any loose pieces of clay that could break off into the salt or the pepper later on. It's also difficult to glaze the inside of salt and pepper shakers because you only have those little holes at the top to get any drainage with, if not done just right then those holes plug up and it takes forever to get the glaze out. Good luck with however you want to do it just be aware that after a little while you realize how much time you're putting into each set and may want to minimize all the times you have to touch each piece.

Luckily I don't believe anyone changed out anything I don't think they had any idea what to do. But I am having to relearn all this because I usually just change elements, I don't have to do anything else. And I do change the relays out as well they don't cost very much compared to elements. And yeah you're right manufacturers often use their own part numbers, that always makes me laugh because when I get the part I now know what it is. Luckily I was able to find those parts on the internet and like you said a much more reasonable price than the manufacturer.

Yeah I've run into those systems too, so I've already begun the color coding on the wiring and about the elements, somebody replaced those a long time ago. Long enough for the coils to have become discolored over time but they are still smooth. I think they replaced them and when that didn't work they got overwhelmed. But yes I will be checking the the coils just to see what the resistance is. Thanks for reminding me I had gotten involved with all the other stuff.

Anyway, I'm willing to go through it for the $200 that I paid for it. I've been waiting on replacement coils for my Skutt 1027 and I can't really afford to wait much longer. I hadn't realized there was still a supply delay and getting coils so this was worth it. Besides I got a $5,000 kiln for 200 bucks not bad. Just a little work

Hi, it is in original condition, I inspected the Dawson kiln center tube and found considerable erosion on the cone rod that drops. But when I inspected the coils I could see that somebody had installed brand new coils. Also when I bought it the control panel had been removed and nobody had ever screwed it back on it was taped with duct tape haha. When I untaped it to inspect the wiring I found one loose wire I also found where it needed to go back onto the relay but at that point I suspected that I needed to go through all the circuitry to make certain somebody hadn't screwed around with it. What I think happened was their kiln stopped working then they went out and bought new elements, then when it didn't work they realized that there was something in the control panel that was wrong. So they pulled it off and probably became overwhelmed at what they were dealing with, taped it up until they could get a better understanding and then just gave up on the kiln. I just want to go through the circuitry to make certain they didn't mess up the wiring and what I suspect is that the primary relay failed but they didn't know how to test it, or simply replace both relays. Now that may not be the problem, but seeing how much use the kiln got I'm going to go with the relays.

Oh and also I do agree with you this is the drawing of my kiln.

Sorry grew up under an electromechanical engineer who specialized in cooling systems, anyone who ever sent a schematic like this to the production floor would be in a lot of trouble. An engineer who has drawn parts incorrectly so you are unable to actually put the pin and the connector together on a production floor for example. You send down an accurate schematic and or blueprint in order to ensure people are assembling something in the right space. I've read plenty of these schematics and they usually pretty accurately reflect what you have in front of you when you're working on a kiln. In regards to White space being wasted what's really being wasted is someone's time having to redraw the plans, in addition and most especially if you would look at the numbers on the relays you would have seen two different relays. Now that is why I said I need to look for other schematics because my kiln has two p&b t92 p11 relays and this schematic clearly shows two different relays. So when I look at a schematic like this and then I look at the reality of my kiln and how it is actually built what I see is somebody cutting costs because they got a good deal on one relay and they can interchange it in addition they're also cutting extra costs by reducing the run of the wiring. These things are always redrawn for a final schematic and the extra white space is usually left there so they can annotate additional information in the schematic so they don't have to redraw it. An engineer has to account for heat exchange between components, resistance values in the wiring since they go with the lightest and therefore least expensive wiring for the job, there are a number of factors that require an accurate reflection of what's going into a control box or building any mechanism. Most of the time these things are found on the production floor, they're sent back up for reevaluation and a new schematic is drawn. Later on a component's purchaser gets a good deal on a component that can be interchanged with something else and the schematic is yet again adjusted for it. But there will always be a final schematic. This isn't a final even though it may provide the essential information necessary. What really bothered me was finding two different relays now I had to go and look up both relays to find out why they're interchangeable Because when I go into the cress parts replacement catalog they're only offering one relay for this model. So when I start with a schematic that shows me something completely different it sure is adding to my workload and it has not been my experience in any production system that's schematics handed down do not reflect information that isn't expected to be followed. People treat schematics like blueprints all the time because they're not paid to figure out the finer details of why something goes where when they're only required to build the mechanism.

Thank you PeterH I did not know that the fire mate switch controlled the speed of the thumb wheel drive which in turn controls the two relays that I have at the bottom of the panel, incidentally I did get to diagrams from Arturo at Cress but these diagrams for an ftx28 show a relay at the top and a relay at the bottom, unfortunately my ftx28 kiln has two relays at the very bottom. I will be going through their schematics to see if I can find mine. Thanks again for the info it really helps

hi,am having trouble with a used Cress kiln and received a great diagram of the thumbwheel drive from PeterH.you can find it under the ques "Trouble shooting Cress kilns" ... it turns out there is an infinite switch connected to the bottom of the drive and like neilstrick just said that could be acting funny. I am trying to trace down the problem in my Cress but am dealing with 2 infinite switches and 2 relays plus the thumbwheel so there could be a relay in there being controlled by the thumbwheel drive. It is very easy to remove the controller box from the kiln and take a picture of whats going on inside your box to get a better idea of whats going on.Just unplug it before doing anything else.

Funny you mention it that way. Way back in the day we had a mechanical clock connected with a gear to our Partlow gas controller to turn down the amount of gas in the annealer slowly in order to anneal our glass. Cress made a fancier solution for electric kilns.

Wow! Thanks so much for this schematic! Just knowing an infinite switch is on the bottom clears up many questions I had since I have never pulled one these off a cress. I thought the upper A<B<C<D control was the only infinite switch. Thanks again.

Thanks for the info didn't know it was a requirement in other countries.

Pretty sure Evenheat is like Aim kilns,they are made to be glassblowing furnaces. The shutoff switch is to prevent you from electrocuting yourself because molten glass will carry a charge if it arcs with an element through your blowpipe and fry you. you can just disable the switch since you are using it for firing ceramics and see if it is a problem with that switch.It might not be giving you a good connection because it would be tripped many times a day and get worn out over time. i had to change them out in our glass studio back when I worked in glass.

No worries, already planned on metering all connections. And have already gone through Cress diagrams, turns out it was a badly stamped plate .It is actually a Cress FTX 28 UP and they sent me a couple of diagrams on it. Hoped someone had run into special circumstances especially with the thumb-wheel drive. It's one of the reasons I don't use Cress kilns because there is no diagram or exploded view of how this system energizes the relays and coils and there has never been an explanation that really tells anything about how this system interacts with all the various parts. but maybe I will see about opening the thumbwheel to see how it works and post pictures of the internal parts and possibly explain how this mechanism works.

Wondered if anyone has had trouble with cress kilns not powering the coils and what the most likely cause would be. I bought a Cress FTX 23 UP and I have trouble believing both relays are dead since I can't get any coils to heat up. (Can't even find the "UP" designation in the schematics they heve) How likely is it going to be the firemate A-D switch? Or is it possible the thumbwheel advancement which increases power has failed? have never found a schematic on either one of these to see how they function which is why I don't mess around with these kilns too often but here I am. Any thoughts? Thanks Stonewarecafe. Sorry don't remember how to downsize jpeg files