Genboomxer

I wondered about that too, but I double checked and it's there. I can copy this schedule and remove the hold. However, like many kilns, mine fires unevenly and a hold somewhere in the process evens things out. Maybe add a 5 min hold at the beginning of the cool ramp (1900º)? P.S. - I triple checked. Turns out I was cocky at some point and took it out of Novice Mode and added the 15 min hold. Learning every day...

I just looked at the med/slow cone fire program and the schedule is: 120F/hr | 180; 120/hr | 250; 300F/hr | 1000; 150F/hr | 1100; 180F/hr | 1982; and final ramp is 108F/hr | 2232F with a 15 min hold, then a similar cool down to what I've been using. Looks very gradual with a 2-step 'candle'. I may skip the first segment since I usually wait a day or 3 for glazes to dry completely. I'll know in a couple weeks how it works out. I happen to have an infrared. Thanks for the tip! Prior to the last 3 firings I replaced the 6-30 plug because the old one got hot and melty around the prongs. I've basically overhauled this little kiln! I'm probably expecting it to do more than it can. My education and experience continue. Thanks again!!!

Interesting. How would the 350F/hr ramp affect the next segment, 150F/hr slowing, and why should that matter if the final ramp up is the more important? The 500F/hr was a paste error. I ran the schedule with 9999. Confirmed set to type K. Also, I found the Genesis tech manual. I'm now armed and dangerous.

Seg. 1 - 100F/h | 220F Seg. 2 - 350F/h | 2000F Seg. 3 - 150F/h | 2190F | 5min hold Seg. 4 - 9999/h | 1900F | 5min hold Seg. 5 - 125F/h | 1400F I'm pretty sure it's set up correctly, but I haven't found anything in the controller's menu that indicates the controller is specifically programmed for a TC type. Here's my response to Bill:

Neither. I took the pic from the vendor's site. They indicate it is a type K direct replacement. I looked at the one installed on my unit and it looks identical. I checked and there are no markings indicating what it is on the TC. When I first installed the controller the TC was way out of whack on the first firing because the manufacturer incorrectly installed the jump across the pins for a type S. I called Bartlett and they walked me through removing the pin jump. I cannot find in the manual where to verify TC type other than jumped or un-jumped terminals for type S or K. Type R isn't mentioned anywhere. It does provide offset and zone info, and all looks proper with my controller. I also checked the red/yellow TC connections to the control board to make sure they are tight. I calibrate the room temperature before firing. I notice the TC will 'drift' a deg or 2 each time it's moved out of place, so I zero it out and recalibrate accordingly. I'm using a digital instant read thermometer given to me by an HVAC tech buddy as my standard. Perhaps this is the crux of my issue? I use the cone firing program for 04 and have zero problems and I achieve proper, consistent results. Maybe I'm trying to outsmart the physical limitations of my kiln by using a custom? It's possible there is contact with wire insulation. but I do not see and direct contact to the TC's outer shell. I have kaowool pretty well packed around it. I've been learning not to be too concerned with reaching peak temp. A fussy kiln is turning out to be a great education! I understand peak temp is more a reference than a goal. This last firing turned out fine for the clay body and glazes I use, but I would rather not have to babysit a kiln all day, or what's a controller for?

Well, I'm back. The good news is my kiln functions and I had a successful glaze firing, and there was no error code. However... Because I was getting the E1 code in the final ramp to peak temp, I babysat the firing to closely monitor progress. Witness cones on all 3 shelves; top shelf pack visible through peep hole. The schedule graph indicates the kiln should reach peak target temp (2190º F) in 8 hours. All seemed like it was doing fine until about 6 hours in when things started slowing down in seg. 2. The photo of the graph shows it took 8 hours to reach seg. 3 (2000ºF), then things really slowed down. Seg. 3 was also slow, but I did not get the E1 code like before. I checked the cone pack and cone 6 was down at about 2h40m into seg.3 @ 2144ºF . At this point I skipped into seg. 4 with a 5m hold @1900ºF and let it finish. The result was a pretty close to cone 6 firing with a peak temp of 2146ºF. Packs from R to L = Top, Mid, Bottom shelves. Looks like I needed a longer hold. I now suspect a bum thermocouple. Yes, replacement was recommended, but I wanted to see if my problem was due to all the other variables. This is the model installed - It ain't cheap and I have a spare type K that is the wire/porcelain insulator kind. Will it work the same?

I win! Full power test gives hot elements, and seems like it's heating faster than the last time I did the test. If that's possible. Hopefully this means an end to E1 codes. Thank you for the expert help and patience, and for making me a lot smarter.

I repurposed the extra wires so nothing changed in that regard. Thanks again! I think I finally got it . Please take a look at the final photo above for how it looks now. I'm about to plug it in and give it a whirl.

Here's a closeup of my relay. This is the inside of the panel now that I've removed all the unnecessary components and wired to the controller.

I was using your drawing as a reference for the numbers and positions, not functionality. I don't think the relay in my model functions the same. I know I'm the problem here with descriptions. Now that I figured out how to post photos - Here they are: This is how it was and is wired per the wiring diagram. The uppermost poles correspond to the top and bottom element set. The bottom most poles correspond to the middle element set. The wires in between them route to the controller. Here's an annotated diagram describing routing of element wires to relay. I'm deleting the relay altogether, I think all I need to do is take the element wires from the left of the relay and connecting them to the left terminal of the controller, and the element wires from the left side of the relay to the right terminal of the controller. The wires in the diagram noted as 'to controller right/left' are redundant and will be deleted. The thumbwheel wires have already been removed as were both infinity switches. I have a shot of the panel and wires after my butchery if you need it. It's a bit tangled looking though. Have I made anything clearer?

Bill - The diagram you linked corresponds to how my kiln is wired. The relay installed is a T92P11A22-240. Comparing the diagram and using the relay drawing you provided poles 8 & 4 are the control; poles 6 & 1 and 2 & 0 route to the elements. Am I reading the diagram correctly?

Undoing last reply - According to the FX23 diagram, 0 and 1 correspond to the middle element set; 6 and 2 for the top and bottom. So I should be able to connect 6 and 0 to the left side and 2 and 1 to the right. 8 and 4 are from the controller and are redundant. Do you agree? f. https://cressmfg.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/FX23F-FTX23-220.pdf Your patience is truly appreciated.

Bill and Neil - I appreciate your sticking with me.. I think I've figured out what I need to do, I just need confirmation. Bill - great explanation for how the relay activates power to each element group. That confirmed to me that I really do not need a relay at all (even though I have 2 on the way, oh well). Neil - I've determined it's best to wire the element sets directly to the controller. Fewer variables in a circuit can''t be a bad thing. I have already gutted the panel of the old Cress parts and associated wiring, and I will be doing the same for the relay as well. I plan on using as few wires and connections as possible for safety and ease of service. Please review my following plan and let me know if you both think this will be successful - Using Bill's relay diagram and attached photo of the electro sitter: If I put ring terminals in the wires that correspond to terminal 6, 7, and 1, then attach those to the left 'To Kiln' terminal, and do the same for wires 2, 3, and 0, then attach to the right, it should work. Right? Anything else I forgot to consider?

Hopefully the image I edited is visible... On the relay, the top 2 terminals actuate the top and bottom elements. The bottom 2 terminals connect to the middle elements. Call the left side column 1 and the right column 2. If I connect column 1 wires to the left 'Kiln Out' terminal and column 2 wires to the right, this should work according to what I think you are saying. Correct? Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake. This is new territory for me. Detail Kiln Relay.pdf

Thanks! So it really IS as simple as I thought. The terminal locations on the relay (in the diagram) confused me until I realized that it switches right to left; not top to bottom. I'll run out and get some ring terminals and give it a go.

I understand what you're advising, but it's a bit intimidating for a shade tree mechanic like me to interpret how to wire each set of elements to the controller directly. I'm not confident I'm seeing it right. Per the diagram: 4 terminals, 2 power in, 2 controller out to kiln. On the relay, there are 4 leads for elements, 2 on each side with 2 leads sending power to it from the Kiln Out of the Electro Sitter. Do I attach the left side element leads to the left, and the 2 from the right to the corresponding leads of the controller? Is it really that simple? The premise I'm working from currently is that the kiln was working with the current relay in place, and now does not. I think for the time being I will wait for the replacement relay, then wire according to the diagram and see if that is indeed the culprit. I need the kiln to work, and it doesn't need to be perfect.

Good news - I finished bypassing all the switches and it cleaned up the panel quite a bit. I double checked the routing and connections; taped off the exposed terminals, etc. Turned it on and, voilà, nothing went Zzzzot! I calibrated the TC (again) and did a full power test. The relay clicked, the pilot light went on, control panel read 'FIRING'. Bad news - Cold elements. I opened it again and rechecked wiring. Rinse/repeat; nothing... I'm too tired and disappointed at the moment to go back in tonight. I'm sure I missed something simple. I did notice the relay click was not as snappy and loud, so maybe it was on the edge of failure and my pulling and pushing on the terminals did it in. I ordered a new relay because the ones I have on hand aren't the correct spec. The definition of 'experience' is when you didn't achieve what you wanted in the first place. At least I'm getting experience. Any suggestions for how to troubleshoot this is greatly appreciated.

I'm in the process of doing that right now. It doesn't seem too complicated and it looks like I can repurpose most of the wires too. Stay tuned...

I installed an Electro Sitter in place of the old sitter - please see my reply to Bill.

Hi Bill - I knew I would probably missed important details in the OP no matter how verbose, and I think I understand where you're coming from. The original kiln sitter was deleted and replaced with an Electro Sitter by Olympic Kilns and has the Bartlett Genesis 2.0 touchscreen controller. Here is the gist of the installation instructions - 'Simply remove the screws from the kiln sitter on front of the kiln, then detach wires connecting to the kiln sitter. Wires will be attached to the back of the Electro Sitter exactly as they were attached to the kiln sitter terminal block. Turn switches to HIGH. Program your Electro Sitter and begin many happy firings!' The wiring was very straightforward, the four contacts of the old sitter are identical to the contacts that came with the Electro Sitter. I totally understand that all the old control circuitry adds unknown variables and it would be to my advantage to omit it, but I wouldn't have a clue for installing additional relays to the circuit without a wiring diagram. Also, the description of the Electro Sitter says it comes with mercury relays installed, mine are non-mercury (I'm in California, long story as to how I got this unit), so I'm wondering if Olympic took that into consideration. I may not need the extra relays? Thanks again for the knowledge.

Thanks Bill! No apology needed. I appreciate the link. I downloaded the same schematic for troubleshooting and it is identical to my wiring. The 'P' is apparently a mystery to the internet... I installed per the instructions that came with the controller, although it did not instruct how to set the switches I deduced that everything should be set at max/manual as a bypass to allow the controller to take over those functions. The controller is wired to the kiln the same as the KS/LT sitter was in the diagram. 4 screws; power in/controlled power out. Now that you suggested replacing the switches with relays I studied the schematic more critically. Please correct my logic as I am not an electrical engineer, but it seems to me that the switches function differently than a relay, i.e. they are always on during the firing and not cycling on/off, but they do cause the relay to cycle. Since the new controller has taken over the functions of the switches, they appear to be redundant and just providing continuity to the relay from the controller. It seems to me that because they are wired in series with the relay, it would be simpler to omit/bypass the 2 switches in the circuit and reroute the elements and pilot lights directly to the one relay. Or am I missing something?

Thanks Neil! I appreciate the quick response. I'm sure I overshared but after reading a few similar posts I wanted to be thorough in providing enough info. The kiln is not going to stray from the cone 6 realm (at least intentionally) so I should be good for a long time. I'm restoring an old gas kiln for future cone 10 work. The circuit was put in for electric vehicle charging. I installed a 6-30 outlet for the kiln. I realize it's oversized (and risky surge protection) but it's the only 220 outlet I got. I also plan to get a larger kiln one day once I get this one working and sell a bunch of ware. I was worried that there was voltage drop over distance or undersized wiring. I didn't remember until you mentioned it, but I did change the schedule to 9999/hr for the latest firing for a faster drop. The way I installed the controller retains the thumbwheel/infinity switch and speed control switch in the circuit. I have the thumbwheel/IS set to 10 and the speed control at 'Manual'. Do you think I need to worry about these other items? There is a T92P11 relay in the schematic, and I bought a couple of spares just in case when I got the kiln. Is this the relay you suggest I replace? Seems like a straightforward swap job. The TC has only been through 7 firings, bisque and glaze, so it would be disappointing to have to buy a new one, but heck, why not? Do you also think I should sleeve the TC, and if so will that affect its reading?

Greetings Kiln Intelligentsia - Issue: E1 error code from Bartlett Genesis 2.0 controller retrofitted to second-hand Cress FX23P kiln. Background: Beginner/Intermediate potter. I purchased and installed the Genesis 2.0 to achieve better firing results; because I'm handy with DIY stuff, and it was cheaper than buying a new kiln. 1 zone. 'K' thermocouple at 1.5" protruding into chamber. First C6 glaze firing had the following schedule taken from MC6G - Seg. 1 - 100F/h | 220F Seg. 2 - 350F/h | 2000F Seg. 3 - 150F/h | 2190F | 15min hold Seg. 4 - 500F/h | 1900F Seg. 5 - 125F/h | 1400F Kiln reached programed temp of 2191º without issue (i.e. no E code). Result was an over fired load with C7 witness dropped on all 3 levels. Fortunately the glazes I use are forgiving at that range and I got acceptable results. I decided to keep the same schedule for firing #2, but reduced the hold to 5 min. but I never got the chance to know if that did the trick because during Seg. 3 I got an E1 code at 2132º. I restarted at 2085º, plugged the ports, changed peak temp to 2165º, and hold to 10 min. It ramped for 2.5hrs until E1 again @ 2133º. I skipped the segment and let it slow cool. Result was C5.5. Witness C6 & C7 half way on all 3 levels. Firing #3 was more interesting and frustrating. Same schedule as before; this time I was watching it and saw it stalling @ 2133º; sure enough E1 alarm as I watched. Restarted immediately @ 2090º and adjusted the rate to 130/h, thinking that would help increase final temp. It ramped for 3 hours and reached 2156º when E1 returned to taunt me a second time. Not being a savvy ceramicist I thought 'why not change more stuff, restart again and see if I can really eff things up?' I changed the rate to 125/hr and reduced top temp to 2165º. 3 hrs later kiln reached 2155º and E1 coded. Restart. 1.5 hrs later at 2144º it E1 coded again. I skipped the segment, added a 10 min hold at 1900º and let it finish. Of course I was expecting an over-fired batch because I realized too late that math would have been my friend, but we don't get along well. all 3 cone packs were flat. I'm guessing I hit a C7.5. Fortunately the load was not ruined, just a bit runnier and shinier than wanted. Diagnostics: All elements glow @ full power test. Element resistance in ohms: Top - spec./actual = 8.01/8.1; Mid Top = 9.9/9.9; Mid Bottom = 9.9/9.9; Bottom = 8.3/8.4 . VAC at 60-30 outlet = 237v; 60 amp circuit, 10 awg wire ~ 30 ft from service to outlet. Thermocouple doesn't have a sleeve, is now black but intact. I did discover that it was reading 5º lower than ambient so I adjusted in the controller. What have I done, what did I miss, and how can I get this little kiln to do my bidding?