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What Will Super Glue Do When Fired?


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#1 tjbanjo

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:18 AM

I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.
Bob

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

#2 Mudlark

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 05:19 AM

I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.

It will melt and carbonise.

#3 djanvrin

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 05:31 AM

I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.



DO NOT use superglue for firing. Superglue is cynaoacetate - and the 'cyano' part is cyanide. At some point, far below glaze curing temp, superglue will degrade producing (a small amount of) cyanide gas. The amount may be small but highly toxic.

Superglue is fine if the pieces are not to be fired.

Alternatives:
common hide/hoof glue (Elmer's, etc.) when dry will accept glaze & burn off w/o bubbling or toxicity.
or
Glaze dish. Dot dish bottom with additional glaze where feet are to attach. Apply feet while glaze pools are wet. This will be fragile, but have enough bond to keep it together through drying & moving to kiln.

In either method, the weight of the dish must rest on the feet during firing.

D

#4 tjbanjo

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:06 AM

Thanks, that's kinda what I suspected. I'll have to remember the Elmer's glue tip, too, I didn't know that.
Bob

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

#5 JBaymore

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:50 AM

Thanks, that's kinda what I suspected. I'll have to remember the Elmer's glue tip, too, I didn't know that.


On the good suggestion to use the wet glaze to temporarily hold the feet on ..... mix a tiny amount of Elmer's White glue into the wet glaze you use for the little daubs of glaze afixing the feet. It'll make the temporary bond stronger for handling...and will burn out.

best,

................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#6 tjbanjo

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 07:12 PM

Thanks, I will try that.
Bob

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

#7 Pres

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:29 PM

Thanks, I will try that.


JBaymore's suggestion works well, as long as the piece is not hanging or on the side where it will slide. Since you will be putting the weight of the pot on the feet to hold them in place it is the perfect solution-and it will not wear out over years!

Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/


#8 Terri

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:58 PM


I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.



DO NOT use superglue for firing. Superglue is cynaoacetate - and the 'cyano' part is cyanide. At some point, far below glaze curing temp, superglue will degrade producing (a small amount of) cyanide gas. The amount may be small but highly toxic.

Superglue is fine if the pieces are not to be fired.

Alternatives:
common hide/hoof glue (Elmer's, etc.) when dry will accept glaze & burn off w/o bubbling or toxicity.
or
Glaze dish. Dot dish bottom with additional glaze where feet are to attach. Apply feet while glaze pools are wet. This will be fragile, but have enough bond to keep it together through drying & moving to kiln.

In either method, the weight of the dish must rest on the feet during firing.

D


If they are able to manage the dexterity required, try making some "glue" out of the clay. Mix it about 2 parts clay with 1 part water (or until the consistency of regular school glue) Scratch a spot where the feet will attach, then stick them on with your "clay glue" . The scratching will allow the glue to get better adhesion and is how most potters make attachments.

#9 judithl

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 10:44 AM

I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.



#10 judithl

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 10:45 AM

Simply glaze the top of the feet where they touch the leaves, and as the glaze melts and then cools down it solidifies and attaches the pieces permanently.

#11 carlaherren

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 11:55 AM


I made clay leaves with my second grade classes, and they made three balls and attached them as feet. Almost all of the feet came off. I went ahead and bisque fired them without the feet on, since they'll just be painting them with tempera. I am super gluing all of the feet back on their leaf dishes before they paint them. However, I will glaze mine and one that another teacher made. Can I super glue the feet on before the glaze firing, or should I glaze and fire it and then glue the feet on? My guess is that the super glue wouldn't hold through the firing, but I don't know anything about the chemistry of super glue.
Thanks.

It will melt and carbonise.



I recently made a tray and the feet fell off during the bisque. I waxed the side that sits on the table, glazed the round feet and glazed the bottom of the tray. When I fired the glaze, it held perfectly with no glue involved. I used the waxed side to know which side to put on the kiln shelf and sat the tray on top. Hope this helps.




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