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banding wheel stuck!


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#21 Seasoned Warrior

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:20 PM

My banding wheel has not been used for some time and has completely stuck, will not turn at all in spite of putting WD40 in all the holes and everywhere that moves (or should move). As they are quite expensive I haven't tried hammering it in case it breaks. Has anyone successfully dealt with this problem, please? (I thought I was quite strong, but perhaps not!)


WD40 is an aerospace wash-down formula whence the WD in the WD40. It's not a particularly good penetrant and it is even worse as a lubricant. I would recommend soaking it in diesel fuel unless you can get a specific penetrating oil such as "Bolt-off" or "Liquid Wrench" followed up with a nice lubricating oil after it is loosened up. The best place to find a penetrating oil wold be your local friendly auto parts store or you local mechanic. Good luck.

Best regards,
Charles



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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:04 AM

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#23 karan

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:12 AM

I always turn mine upside down, and let wd40 do some work overnight, or liquid silicone! Good luck! :-) Karan
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#24 perkolator

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

If this is an eBay special banding wheel that costs around $15 then it is most likely one of the stem-style that is just a shaft inside a sleeve with some grease to help it slide. These types don't last long and will freeze up unless you keep it lubed. Since they're aluminum they tend to oxidize pretty bad inside. I would suggest the penetrating oil and leave it upside down for a while. You can also try smacking it with a hammer on the center of wheel head to break it free, then put feet on the base and grab the head to try to loosen it up. Either way, these are not built to last and you may have to replace.

If your banding wheel was a few hundred bucks and weighs a ton then you've got a GOOD one like a Shimpo. These are built to last with heavy duty materials and are built with serviceability in mind. Turn it upside down and you should see a nut to take it apart. The bottom would most likely have the brand name stamped on it for these nicer banding wheels.

#25 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:24 PM

If this is an eBay special banding wheel that costs around $15 then it is most likely one of the stem-style that is just a shaft inside a sleeve with some grease to help it slide. These types don't last long and will freeze up unless you keep it lubed. Since they're aluminum they tend to oxidize pretty bad inside. I would suggest the penetrating oil and leave it upside down for a while. You can also try smacking it with a hammer on the center of wheel head to break it free, then put feet on the base and grab the head to try to loosen it up. Either way, these are not built to last and you may have to replace.

If your banding wheel was a few hundred bucks and weighs a ton then you've got a GOOD one like a Shimpo. These are built to last with heavy duty materials and are built with serviceability in mind. Turn it upside down and you should see a nut to take it apart. The bottom would most likely have the brand name stamped on it for these nicer banding wheels.



#26 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for this Perkolator! I'm afraid it is a cheap one, but I'll have another try. I don't use it enough to justify an expensive one - which is why it sat on a shelf getting stuck I guess!

#27 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:28 PM

I always turn mine upside down, and let wd40 do some work overnight, or liquid silicone! Good luck! :-) Karan



#28 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

WD40 is a very thin lubricant, but most of it just evaporates out, "WD" stands for "water displacement" and it was invented after 40 trials and errors to get a formula that would displace moisture and water and lubricate with the properties the manufacturer wanted.

Oil is oil basically, it's all petroleum, but too thin will evaporate out, too thick might not get in where it needs to go. I would try some "3 in 1" oil, or light machine oil and let it sit, if you can get ANY movement at all in either direction then work it back and forth repeatedly quickly, and add more of the oil in all the holes as it gets looser and looser.

What's probably happened is the bearings' lubricant has dried out and then the steel balls, sleaves or some other parts in there have rusted, and rust expands.
If there's any holes large enough, it's also possible some insects have managed to get in and nest a bit, which can bring in moisture, grit, dirt etc too.

I had this happen to a bearing in a dust collector motor, and I opened the motor up and was able to get some oil in the rusted bearing in the back of it, and working it back and forth it loosened up, adding more oil helped flush the crud and disolved rust out and after flushing it with more oil and wiping, it worked fine and I still use it with no trouble.



#29 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

ON the topic of banding wheels being expensive...... Ikea has lazy susans very cheap... I have 3 of them and use them a lot as well as a "real" banding wheel. They are vey useful for the price.



#30 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:45 PM

Dear MichaelS,

I had thought I had no hope of getting to Ikea, but my daughter says there is one near her and I am off to see my grandchildren for their half-term holiday tomorrow, so she will take me to Ikea! They do have the lazy susans in stock, according to their website, so that should solve the problem - thanks a lot! (I'll still try to loosen the banding wheel, eventually)

#31 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

Is it possible that something was put inside to stop it from spinning, temporarily? Did you check the bottom? Is there a screw on the side that could possibly have been tightened to stop the spinning?
I agree with Marcia I can't imagine a banding wheel doing this. Do a search of the manufacturer so you can inquire of them. There couldn't be many who make bright blue banding wheels!



#32 potter232

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:56 PM

Dear Lucille Oka,
Thank you for your reply. I'm afraid it is a cheaper model with no screws or manufacturer's name. Just stuck. I will try putting the oil on and leaving it upside down as some people have suggested. Meanwhile I hope to do as MichaelS suggested and buy a lazy susan at Ikea.

I liked the message in Latin! (my Latin was never very good, but I did manage to translate it! It helped that I knew that wonderful message in English!)

#33 Seasoned Warrior

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:30 PM

Well, considering the apparent fall out over the WD40 comments I think I should post why I said what I said. I checked to see what the official WD40 site had to say about it's product and the site does say that WD stands for Water Displacement and that it is a lubricant. That is their official statement. Anyway going back in time many years I was the Chief Operating Officer of Action Hydraulics, Inc., located at 800 51st Ave in Oakland, CA. We held several classificatino numbers and some of our information is still on the web. Action Hydraulics was a military aerospace contractor and we used to manufacture parts for installation on the Atlas-Centaur Launch Vehicle. the pictures of the launches where one could see the hoses cables that drop off the launch vehicle, well those hoses and cable swere one of our products. We also manufactured a number of other items including the hydraulics for the APECS ship-board protection system. one of the products we had to use on all our equippment was a product that was supplied to us by the Boeing Corporation and it was designated WD40 and was a washdown prior to packaging and shipping various components. In discussions with Boeing engineers it was said that the washdown was the same as the WD40 sold over the counter.

Reading the website of WD40 they make a lot of statements but they give little in the way of hard facts. They claim that WD40 is a penetrant and a lubricant but they have no lubricity data and certainly no data to indicate it use a s penetrant. They state their formula is secret.

I still believe the advice I gave regarding the use of kerosene or diesel as being a better penetrant is sound and I would not recommend something as volatile as WD40 as a lubricant for rotating machinery and that is based on sound and experienced engineering. I have no idea what happened subsequent to my post.

Best regards,
Charles

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:02 AM

Well, considering the apparent fall out over the WD40 comments I think I should post why I said what I said. I checked to see what the official WD40 site had to say about it's product and the site does say that WD stands for Water Displacement and that it is a lubricant.

I still believe the advice I gave regarding the use of kerosene or diesel as being a better penetrant is sound and I would not recommend something as volatile as WD40 as a lubricant for rotating machinery and that is based on sound and experienced engineering. I have no idea what happened subsequent to my post.

Best regards,
Charles


Charles, your post was not the problem, I had simply replied to it and this portion in particular;

"WD40 is an aerospace wash-down formula whence the WD in the WD40."


I had said "WD" stood for Water Displacement, and that it was their 40th formula try- all taken from their website which I read years ago. I had simply said oil is oil, it's all petroleum, and that one can use a light machine oil or "3-in-one" oil and soak the bearings which appeared from the description to have seized up from rust.
That's about all I said, and I came back a little while later and find my post "rating" voted DOWN into the negative numbers anonymously so I thought what the hell? and then I thought well the heck with this I don't need to spend my time finding, writing out information, posting, and having people hit the negative rating buttons as some kind of "protest slam" joke, or whatever.

That's the problem with those ratings features or "karma" on another one- on some of these board software packages, posting on an art site shouldn't become a built-in competition to gain the most "like" points, highest score, highest post count, "most karma" or most pats on the back, unfortunately the software here has this function built-in and I haven't seen this function in years, SMF and vBulletin do not have it.

In any case I'm going back to maintaining the other art site as the owners fixed the robo-spam problem and intend to keep it up instead of abandoning as they appeared to be going towards.

Take care.

#35 Seasoned Warrior

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:42 PM


Well, considering the apparent fall out over the WD40 comments I think I should post why I said what I said. I checked to see what the official WD40 site had to say about it's product and the site does say that WD stands for Water Displacement and that it is a lubricant.

I still believe the advice I gave regarding the use of kerosene or diesel as being a better penetrant is sound and I would not recommend something as volatile as WD40 as a lubricant for rotating machinery and that is based on sound and experienced engineering. I have no idea what happened subsequent to my post.

Best regards,
Charles


Charles, your post was not the problem, I had simply replied to it and this portion in particular;

"WD40 is an aerospace wash-down formula whence the WD in the WD40."


I had said "WD" stood for Water Displacement, and that it was their 40th formula try- all taken from their website which I read years ago. I had simply said oil is oil, it's all petroleum, and that one can use a light machine oil or "3-in-one" oil and soak the bearings which appeared from the description to have seized up from rust.
That's about all I said, and I came back a little while later and find my post "rating" voted DOWN into the negative numbers anonymously so I thought what the hell? and then I thought well the heck with this I don't need to spend my time finding, writing out information, posting, and having people hit the negative rating buttons as some kind of "protest slam" joke, or whatever.

That's the problem with those ratings features or "karma" on another one- on some of these board software packages, posting on an art site shouldn't become a built-in competition to gain the most "like" points, highest score, highest post count, "most karma" or most pats on the back, unfortunately the software here has this function built-in and I haven't seen this function in years, SMF and vBulletin do not have it.

In any case I'm going back to maintaining the other art site as the owners fixed the robo-spam problem and intend to keep it up instead of abandoning as they appeared to be going towards.

Take care.


I certainly hope you do not decide to leave this discussion group because it has been my experience that many of the posters here are not only professionals but some of the best educators in the business. People like John Baymore, Marcia Selsor, Chris Campbell and Stephen Robison are an incredible resource to find anywhere let alone in one area. Many of the other posters are professionals who have been actually creating in ceramics for many years and also have a wealth of information to share and they all share it selflessly.

Unfortunately in an community there are a certain number of people who are petty, picayune and just generally un-nice people. Many years ago I had a co-worker who had a motto: "Illigitimi non carborundum" don't let the bastards wear you down. Now I know that there are some who will jump on this as lousy Latin and there are those who can only pick on one's spelling (or typing. or grammar) and this applies to them too! But don't give up a valuable resource. Like any other community one has to spend a little time to determine whose posts are treasure and whose posts a garbage. I believe that you will find more value here than angst.

I hope to see you around.

Best regards,
Charles




#36 MichaelS

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:39 PM

Dear MichaelS,

I had thought I had no hope of getting to Ikea, but my daughter says there is one near her and I am off to see my grandchildren for their half-term holiday tomorrow, so she will take me to Ikea! They do have the lazy susans in stock, according to their website, so that should solve the problem - thanks a lot! (I'll still try to loosen the banding wheel, eventually)



Something that is obvious (once you have done it) they work just as well upside down and are very stable that way....they are also very sturdy......I currently have 15 kg of coiled clay sitting on one and it is smooth operating and steady.
I actualy use them more than my "real" banding wheel now.
Good luck and let me know how they work out for you.

Ps ,, where are you based,,,I am in Derbyshire.

Michael




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