Lbs
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Posts posted by Lbs
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1 hour ago, neilestrick said:
I assume the kiln was still on when you touched the coils? Super dangerous! Never touch anything while the power is on unless you're measuring voltage with a meter.
10.1 ohms is good. 120 volts divided by 10.1 gives us 11.88 amps, x2 = 23.76 amps per kiln section. So when you wire them in series, 10.1 x 2 = 20.2 ohms, and 240 volts divided by 20.2 = 11.88 x 2 = 23.76. So good to go. Now you need to get two infinite switches, something like THIS. You may be able to find them cheaper if you search around. Just make sure they're 240 volts, 15 amps, and include the knob. Robert Shaw is my preferred brand, but I'm sure there are others that work just fine too.
Okay, thank you! Once i get the garage electrical issues sorted, I'll get on this.
Will you be able to talk me through replacing the switches? -
I thought I posted a response and now cant find it. Results from new digital meter are as follows (each element read the same): set to 200, meter read 10.1, at 2k it read .010, at 20k it read .01. So i assume 200 was the correct setting.
Since doing this, i had the bright idea of trying to adjust a sagging element. Turned the kiln on to heat it up, and began pinching streteched coils. All good until pliers touched element below, then POP, sparks and electricity to whole garage goes out, no breaker tripped, including main! Looked for reset button on any outlets, found one but pushing it did nada. I've left a message with my electrician, but thought this extra info might provide additional insights to the wiring issues with the kiln i may be dealing with.
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On 11/9/2023 at 3:30 PM, neilestrick said:
I'd buy a cheap digital meter. They're easier to use and get precise readings .
My digital meter finally arrived, and I actually had time to check it out today. Here are the results from three different settings: at 200, the meter read 10.1, at 2k it read .010, at 20k it read.01
Thank you for your patience!
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16 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:
I like your thinking but in-situ sounds much more acceptable than live circuit measurement. To have a meter that does both is helpful but for folks without experience in work on live circuits it has increased risk.
Ohm meter has been ordered! I did not get one with a clamp
In regard to the element end (the pig tail) I broke while trying to disconnect it from a wire: what is left is just barely poking out of the hole. It seems if I can stretch it a 1/4 inch or so I could get enough to reattach to the pole (not sure if "pole" is the right word). Since it won't heat up by plugging in, what are my options for attempting to heat it? I don't have a torch, and haven't used on before so not sure this is the best scenario to learn on. Would a heat gun work?
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3 hours ago, neilestrick said:
I'd buy a cheap digital meter. They're easier to use and get precise readings .
I was coming to the same conclusion. Thanks.
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21 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:
@Lbs With that meter you need to set the ohms on X1k connect the black and red meter leads to each other (hold them firmly connected) and using the zero adjust on the left side to zero the meter as precisely as you can. Top green scale, zero is to the right. This will now indicate that the shorted conductors are zero ohms and the meter is now calibrated. Uncross the leads and begin measuring the elements. Please make sure the kiln is unplugged (no power) before making any resistance measurements.
edit: the readings should be in the single / double digit range: ie say 1-30 ohms. If not change to the X10, re-zero as above and make your reading. It’s been many years since I used an analogue meter with an exponential scale so not sure if that is a multiplier or full scale indicator. Regardless calibrating to zero is the important part and translating the reading to something in the 1 to tens of ohms range will be the answer. The elements will not be 100 s of ohms. Calibrate to zero each time you change scale is the important part. Record your results, scale multiplier and post.
I set meter to X1k, calibrated to 0, and the needle swung back all the way to measure 0 resistance. I set it to X10, calibrated and got the same results.
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6 hours ago, Lbs said:
I have one! Do I need to measure each element's resistance? Or just one? I have googled measuring resistance of elements, so think I know what to do next. I will get to this this afternoon and report back. Thank you!!!
Not sure I've done this right. I pulled switch box off and connected each lead to the start and finish of an element where it connects inside box. Struggled with how to set my ohmmeter, so tried about every setting related to the Omega sign on my meter. I've posted photos of the settings that got a response, plus some additional photos I hope mean something to you. As you can see, the needle bounced off the chart. I removed a wire to an element that was connected to a screw that shared with another element's wire, after reading about elements wired in parallel. Managed to break the element where it connects to the switch wire (not sure that's what its called) in the process of trying to disconnect it @#$&!! I see the dollar signs stacking up! Removing second element's wire didn't make a difference in meter reading.
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22 hours ago, neilestrick said:
The first thing we need to do is measure the resistance of the elements so we can math out the amperage and verify that wiring in series is the way to go. If you don't have a multi-meter, pickup a cheap one. It just needs to be able to measure Ohms, which is the little horseshoe symbol on the meter. A basic $15 meter will work fine.
I have one! Do I need to measure each element's resistance? Or just one? I have googled measuring resistance of elements, so think I know what to do next. I will get to this this afternoon and report back. Thank you!!!
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On 10/31/2023 at 2:48 PM, neilestrick said:
If the Sitter power button won't stay engaged, spray a little WD-40 to the backside of the Sitter plate- there's a small wire spring and another part that move to catch the button- then push the button in and out a bunch of times and see if it'll catch. Sometimes the mechanism gets corroded/gummed up.
You may not hear buzzing on low like you do on high. Totally depends on the kiln. Some kilns don't hardly buzz at all, some buzz really loud.
This worked! The button will now stay engaged. Thank you!
On 11/1/2023 at 11:20 AM, Lbs said:It does look like the plug could be a replacement . The person I got it from never fired it (they never wired the house for it) and didn't know the history, so what you said makes sense.
my electrical skills are limited to replacing outlets and installing ceiling fans. I'll see f I can find a kiln tech, if not, you can look forward to photos in your future!
No luck so far finding a kiln tech. If you are still willing/able to help, what photos do you need to try to talk me through wiring this so it works with three instead of four-wire power cord, as well as switching to infinite switches?
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14 hours ago, neilestrick said:
Since the serial plate on the main kiln body of the Paragon reads 120/240 volts, it needs to be wired up as a 4 wire system- 2 hots, neutral, ground. Your Duncan is a 3 wire system- 2 hots, ground. The Duncan sends 240 volts through the elements, so both hots are connected to all the elements and complete the circuit that way. The Paragon takes the 2 hots and separates them, running 120 volts to the top half of the kiln and 120 volts to the bottom half. The neutral is required to complete the 120 volt circuit.
At some point a 3 wire power cord was connected to the Paragon. If they rewired the kiln to work as a 3 wire system that's fine, but if it's got the original wiring setup then it won't work properly.
None of this has anything to do with the power button on the Sitter not staying engaged. That is a separate issue that needs to be dealt with.
Unfortunately the wiring situation is going to be difficult to diagnose over the internet. Do you have any experience with wiring? Because the place to start (after getting the power button to catch) will be to figure out what's going on inside the control box and see if the 3 wire power cord will work. We can try to do it with photos, otherwise you'll want to call in a kiln tech to take a look at it.
It does look like the plug could be a replacement . The person I got it from never fired it (they never wired the house for it) and didn't know the history, so what you said makes sense.
my electrical skills are limited to replacing outlets and installing ceiling fans. I'll see f I can find a kiln tech, if not, you can look forward to photos in your future!
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I really appreciate all the information others are offering!
Here are photos of the electrical specs, etc. for the "new" (old) Paragon kiln. The second photo is of a receptacle on the kiln itself, for adding addition rings (?) The last photo is the electric plate info from the Duncan kiln my studio is wired for and which works just fine. The plugs on both kilns are the same and fit the receptacle pictured.
If you can't see the information on the Paragon plate, here it is: Volts: 120/240/3W; Amps 25.9, Watts: 6226; Phase: 1
Duncan (the one I have been using for years): Volts 240; Amps 24; Watts: 5760; AC Single Phase.
To answer Peter's question, I don't know if I have my studio wired correctly for this kiln. I assumed since it fit the receptacle I had, all was good, but perhaps not!
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Thanks, but no timer on this one.
Any thoughts about why low and medium aren't working ? -
Just acquired an old paragon kiln. Elements look good, brick looks pretty good. Plugged it in, with cone in sitter and set to low. Pushed button, no response. Set to medium, same. Set both knobs to high and could hear the telltale hum, but the "on" button wouldn't stay engaged, and some arcing of electricity could be seen in the vents of the electrical box. I held the on button in and ran hand over elements and I think they all were heating (hard to tell since I didn't wait for glow to appear).
Any ideas about where the problem might lie, or what other things I should do to gather more information for a diagnosis?
Thanks in advance for your help,
LBS
Paragon A88B, serial no. L79064
in Equipment Use and Repair
Posted
The electrician who put the outlet in for my duncan kiln (with same plug as this paragon) has it on a 60amp circuit and assures me it's not too big.