Garecht Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi all, As a recent graduate from a college with a great (but compact) ceramics program I have scoured the internet for career opportunities. However, to my chagrin, it would seem that there are few if any full time opportunities for a qualified ceramic artist. So I suppose my question is: Does anyone have any advice on starting out? Or for that matter, a good direction to point me in? I sort of feel like I'm looking in the wrong places. Thanks a lot! -Garecht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 To be honest, it's tough out there. If you want to teach at college level, you'll need an MFA. If you don't have that, there are a ton of ceramic programs at art centers and park districts where you could pick up some classes. It would be tough to actually make a living doing that, but you can always supplement by selling pots. Most people, like myself, start by working a 'real' job, and slowly work into being full time with clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Garecht, I'm sorry but I have to go right after "The 800 Pound Gorilla In The Room" with your question here ..................... Why are you suddenly looking at this kind of significant "life" question now after you have graduated? Where did your undergrad ceramics faculty play into developing a solid understanding of the realities of the ceramics field with you as you were studying the art? Long before graduation. How about the school's admissions and advising staff? And the school's graduate placement office? As was just pointed out above (below?),........ it is not easy to make it work as a ceramic artist (or as any artist for that matter). That reality should have been communicated to you along the way before you got to this point. If you are in the USA look in the back of Ceramic Monthly magazine. There are almost always production pottery facilities looking for staff in the classifieds. There is a high turnover in these positions because they are hard work and require excellent throwing skills and do not pay all that well. So they are always advertising for new people. It is a great place to start to develop some "real world" skills to go with what you picked up in undergrad school. Another thing to look at is residencies. These often supply studio space, equipment access, some materials, and often a stipend in return for tech and studio support services and some community ed type teaching. Ther are many of these programs. But they are competitive..... so you have to make a good case why they should pick you. (But that is the "way of the world" in any field.) As has been mentioned teachjing through community studios is a possinility. But it is quite competitive there also. Setting up your own place requires the investment of some significant capital and having the resources on hand to live off of until the business starts to support you. This can take years in ANY field. As has been said, often people do this while start-up work while working another job to "pay the bills" and live off of. The pyramid narrows REALLY fast in the college teaching field. And programs, at least in the US, are contracting... not expanding. So that is a really tough road to try to follow also. Lots of MFAs out there wishing for a teaching position and not finding them. And contrary to popular rumor.... it is not necessarily an easy nor absurdly lucrative job either. Much as I hate to quote something from McDonalds (ugh!)....... they have a business management slogan/statement and in it is an important concept that they say has lead to their original success: persistence and determination. Same is true for succeeding in ceramics. Last man/woman standing. Keep running.... corss the finish line. It is not going to be easy.... but if you are driven to do this.... you can and will. best, ..................john PS: Edit....... and you should be able to go back to your undergrad faculty for some help and advice at this point also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garecht Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Thank you for the advice. I discussed a lot of these options with my adviser/professor. Although I didn't exactly have time to explore employment opportunities while finishing up school due to a heavy workload and solo exhibition. I've relied pretty heavily upon the internet to get my information on employment and residencies. My biggest problem seems to be that I'm having a hard time finding a place to search for careers that caters specifically to the fine arts. I suppose I'll try to get the most recent issues of ceramic arts monthly to rifle through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 John's right. It's pretty much just do what you gotta do to support your clay habit. When I got out of grad school I worked 2 1/2 years for a commercial glass company installing mirrors and building storefronts. Then I taught preschool for a year and a half. Then I got a job as a tech at a ceramic supply company for another 2 1/2 years. None of them allowed me to make pots during the day, but they paid the bills so I could make pots at home. Now I have my own shop where I still don't get to make pots all day- 2 to 3 hours at most. But I'm at least submerged in ceramic activity..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 You could also place your own ad in the back of Ceramics Monthly seeking a position as an apprentice in a working pottery. Bet you would learn more about the real world/work of making a living with pottery than you ever could anywhere else. But don't feel alone in your lack of knowledge ... I have led discussion groups with students at NCECA several times on the topic of making a living with pottery and almost NONE of the students had ever been told any of the facts I presented ... which were really the basics of Business. They knew nothing about product lines, price points or marketing. This however is not totally the fault of the Universities since almost none of them would have signed up for Business Plans 101 or Accounting 101 as it was not part of their vision of being an artist/potter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 ... which were really the basics of Business. They knew nothing about product lines, price points or marketing. This however is not totally the fault of the Universities since almost none of them would have signed up for Business Plans 101 or Accounting 101 as it was not part of their vision of being an artist/potter. It should be part of the curriculum for art students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 My biggest problem seems to be that I'm having a hard time finding a place to search for careers that caters specifically to the fine arts. I don't think such a clearinghouse exists. Not sure that it would make sense. I mean, if arts careers were so well-structured and easy to navigate, would you consider it a creative career? Whatever your future with clay is, you'll have to figure out your own path. I agree with all the advice given to you in this thread. I also wish that all college-level arts programs would include some business training. Or maybe I'm wishing for "practical real-world training" which is a larger subject than business training. I studied design in college, not fine arts, and we were well-schooled in these subjects. I think the first college art department that announces that incorporates required business and real-world subjects in their curriculum will get flooded with applications! Mea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 "I think the first college art department that announces that incorporates required business and real-world subjects in their curriculum will get flooded with applications!" Artists wish they had more business training, but they are not likely to choose it over a creative offering. For many years the Arts Business Institute has offered intensive weekend workshops to jump start artists in business but have a hard time getting artists to attend. I've been to two and the amount of good, solid practical advice can save you years of mistakes. http://www.artsbusinessinstitute.org/ Hope it's ok to post this link as I have no financial or other interest ... I just think it is an invaluable asset for artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Why should we let college students decide what they need or don't need to study? Isn't that a failure of responsibility? When I was a college student I had no idea what I didn't know. I'm glad my teachers did. I also think that the Arts Business Institute has some great programs. But they are almost entirely focused on steering craft artists into their wholesale trade shows. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not well-suited for everyone. The fact that they have trouble finding students has to do with a lot of things, namely the recession having squished a whole lot of wholesale gallery market. Mea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garecht Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 It's not that we didn't have training in business. It was more about marketing yourself. Gallery curating focused on hanging standards and operating a gallery, while senior exhibition focused on marketing and developing a cohesive body of work. My adviser pointed me in the direction of a lot of good residencies, which are by and large unpaid. I just want to continue working in a studio, so that I don't have to put my ideas on hold, and so I can constantly have fresh work in my portfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Garecht ... Go to my website and read Marketing to Galleries ... A primer for marketing yourself. The main thing potters hate to hear is that they are making a PRODUCT and as such are competing with everyone else on the planet for the consumer dollar. You need to have an item buyers want and are willing to pay for. People do not care about how long it took you to make it or how many years you studied or how you fired it or any of that. They want the story, the romance ... You glazed it that color because it reminded you of a warm night in your mother's garden ... You are a potter so you can feel the earth in your hands ... Etc. in a time when so many people are disconnected from the planet, you are that special person who isn't. True. The ABI is looking for people to go to the wholesale show in Philly but that doesn't mean they aren't supplying great information ... and you can just say no. Use the info they provide. It might cost a bit but it will put you years ahead and save you from making costly mistakes. As every successful working potter will tell you ... You have to want this more than you want anything else ... You have to keep getting up after you've been knocked down ... You have to show up, be there when opportunity knocks. It's not a question of maybe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 As every successful working potter will tell you ... You have to want this more than you want anything else ... You have to keep getting up after you've been knocked down ... You have to show up, be there when opportunity knocks. It's not a question of maybe ... Assignment........... read that above quote over and over and over and over and over and over.......... best, ........................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I have led discussion groups with students at NCECA several times on the topic of making a living with pottery and almost NONE of the students had ever been told any of the facts I presented ... which were really the basics of Business. They knew nothing about product lines, price points or marketing. This however is not totally the fault of the Universities since almost none of them would have signed up for Business Plans 101 or Accounting 101 as it was not part of their vision of being an artist/potter. Potters are not alone in this situation................... I have a family member that is an MD. Phd. Actually multiple PhDs. Harvard... etc. Brilliant doctor. When he switched from medical research to setting up his own clinical practice..... he called ME...... because I had been running my pottery business for many years. He knew medicine... he did not know how to run a BUSINESS. They don't teach that "real world stuff" in medical school either. And he has multiple degrees from some of the finest schools in the United States. So this issue is not the sole province of the art schools or art departments. On another note........ NHIA does cover this stuff a bit.............. one required full year course. Not as much as the subject deserves... but it is something. That is in addition to the "self promotion" kind of stuff that gets done via Senior Studio type classes and such. And I know that I as well as other members of the ceramics faculty talk about this kind of subject matter in our various ceramics classes all the time. best, ........................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WholeBean Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hi all, As a recent graduate from a college with a great (but compact) ceramics program I have scoured the internet for career opportunities. However, to my chagrin, it would seem that there are few if any full time opportunities for a qualified ceramic artist. So I suppose my question is: Does anyone have any advice on starting out? Or for that matter, a good direction to point me in? I sort of feel like I'm looking in the wrong places. Thanks a lot! -Garecht Garecht, I graduated about 3 years ago and I found myself confronted with the same questions and problems you seem to be facing. I knew from the get go that I would probably not find a full time job in the arts. So, I decided to work whatever job I could find and try to continue playing around in clay during my free time (in the last 3 years I have been a coffee barista, shipping/receiving grunt, salesman, and electrician). In terms of keeping myself in clay, the best move I made was to arrange a work exchange at the local community college ceramics studio. I mix clay and glazes, mop the floor, fire kilns, etc. and in exchange I get to use the facility to continue making my own pots. I also made a solid effort to get involved in the local art scene. This has resulted in me regularly showing work in one of the more respected galleries in my area. I have also been able to keep a fairly steady stream of commission work coming in. However... I'm still working in construction 40 hrs a week. You asked for advice on starting out, so as a bit of a greenhorn myself, I suggest that you first and foremost find a way to keep yourself working in clay, even if it's just a few hours a week. Next, work a job to pay the bills and just keep at it. That's the message I'm getting from a number of posts by others: determination and perseverance! Best wishes! I'm in this too! -Eric PS- I find the internet is a lousy way to get results in the job market, especially in the art world. Personally, my best opportunities have come from relationships, phone calls and hand shakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 That's interesting about the doctor with multiple advanced degrees, who needed to consult the potter for business advice. I guess art education is not the only field that overlooks this subject. Garecht, residencies are unpaid or low-paying (or in some cases, charge you rent) because you are supposed to parlay the studio access into your own income, by producing and selling your work. It's not employment, it's self-employment. At the studios that offer residencies in my area, it is common for resident artists to also have 9 to 5 jobs. Wholebean, I think your attitude and work ethic are exemplary, and they will take you far. Mea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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