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Duncan Es 1029N Power Problem


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Hi Im new here,Im hoping to find some advice on my duncan 1029 kiln,Ive only done 2 firings since i bought it, this kiln is giving me a headace, I have some knowledge of electrics so I do know how to use a multimeter, Paragon hasnt been much help,as there wiring diagram for this is usless as it doesnt show the 2 relays or the 2 cycle control modules, What this unit does, is to turn it on I must rotate the timer on, then push in the kiln sitter button, With both infinite switches on Off, the middle element and light are now on, the middle element cannot be turned off or regulated as its now getting full power from the sitter block , straight wiring from block. To candle a load I had to manually turn kiln on and off every 5 min.  Maybe  one of you tech gurus might be able to help with this ,can i wire the middle element into one of the controls of bottom element , or maybe just drill a hole in face plate and add an ifinite switch to control it.. And why does this kiln have relays as it seems redundant as the infinite switch can control how long the elements are on??  Randy

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Sounds very confusing, when I had a quick google for the wiring diagrams it seemed to have three infinite switches with a two sectioned kiln, was I looking at the right one?

 

No kiln would be designed to have one element that came on full power from the start. It makes sense that all three elements would have infinite controls.

 

Do the relays somehow turn the middle elements on and off?  Did you buy this brand new because it sounds very odd from what I am reading.

 

I wouldn't wire it into an existing switch as then it could overload it.

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This is a 2 section kiln, the middle element gets full 240v from sitter block nothing to regulate it, whats funny is all the electrics look stock no sign of any changes, no unused holes for mounting anything, it has 3 element sections with 4 elements to a sec. theres 2 infinite switches and 2 relays which control the top and bottom element, and 2 artisan repeat cycle timers wired to the infinite sw. there is nothing missing from inside as theres no excess mounting holes, Bought it used, duncan went out of busn, years ago and paragon bought all stock, there factory wiring diagram is incomplete, spoke to a paragon tech and she said its made with relays and cycle timers,like mine. I guess I will have to call them back this week and see if they can shed some light on it, what I can do is take some pics and put them on here.  

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The timer and relay is supposed to pulse the middle section every 60 seconds.  The elements themselves are never connected directly to the power from the kiln setter.  The elements are controlled by the infinite switches or timer/relays which receive power from the kiln sitter.  You will have to check each infinite switch and the timer/relays.  If any elements are directly wired to the kiln sitter then their is a mistake in the wiring.  Hopefully you can contact someone at Paragon.

David

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I tryed contacting paragon all day and no one would answer either of the # I had, Apparently the previous owner had changed some wiring and didnt tell me. Im thinking of building a pid controller for it. I would have to add a relay in for the middle elements.

Big ice storm in Texas today-maybe they did not make it to work try another day.

Mark

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 I spoke to Arnold at paragon and got this figured out using the wiring dia. for a duncan da 1029n. And duncan did engineer this kiln with NO control for the middle element bank, go figure? Other than that its a very good kiln I will install a control for  the middle elements, without it the kiln fires up to fast, This duncan is over engineered and a bit complicated. Its redundant having a fixed interval timer a repeat cycle timer a control relay into the 2 power relays and 2 infinite switches controlling top and bottom banks.Thanks for the help 

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  • 4 years later...
On 2/26/2015 at 8:36 AM, gixxer22 said:

 I spoke to Arnold at paragon and got this figured out using the wiring dia. for a duncan da 1029n. And duncan did engineer this kiln with NO control for the middle element bank, go figure? Other than that its a very good kiln I will install a control for  the middle elements, without it the kiln fires up to fast, This duncan is over engineered and a bit complicated. Its redundant having a fixed interval timer a repeat cycle timer a control relay into the 2 power relays and 2 infinite switches controlling top and bottom banks.Thanks for the help 

You Mentioned a pid module. Maybe a good time to just automate this with a Bartlett V6cf and some relays. I went through this kiln with someone recently and it is a bit whacky as I recall. I will see if I still have the wiring diagram but I believe we ended up concluding it was far easier to fully automate of add an infinite switch.

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I have a EA 1029N Duncan Kilm, bought recently.  I had to change power cord as the one on it did not fit the outlet.  I put a 220 dryer cord on it.  It fired for 24 hours without reaching temp for glaze.  Fairly sure I got the 8 wires from the coils correctly attached, but would like to know if there is a simple diagram that would let me confirm it.  Cannot find correct diagram on the par website.  Thank you in advance for any help.

Edited by SteveGumpl
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1 hour ago, SteveGumpl said:

I have a EA 1029N Duncan Kilm, bought recently.  I had to change power cord as the one on it did not fit the outlet.  I put a 220 dryer cord on it.  It fired for 24 hours without reaching temp for glaze.  Fairly sure I got the 8 wires from the coils correctly attached, but would like to know if there is a simple diagram that would let me confirm it.  Cannot find correct diagram on the par website.  Thank you in advance for any help.

That's a pretty large kiln to be putting a dryer cord on!  I'm surprised it's not tripping your breaker or causing a fire, but that definitely would cause it to not  reach temperature.

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8 hours ago, SteveGumpl said:

I have a EA 1029N Duncan Kilm, bought recently.  I had to change power cord as the one on it did not fit the outlet.  I put a 220 dryer cord on it.  It fired for 24 hours without reaching temp for glaze.  Fairly sure I got the 8 wires from the coils correctly attached, but would like to know if there is a simple diagram that would let me confirm it.  Cannot find correct diagram on the par website.  Thank you in advance for any help.

Alright, here is the best I got for you. Went through this once before and at that time the DA 1029 schematic fit so after reviewing the sequence of operation and the wattage of the series and series parallel element sets, the user decided to automate this with a vc6cf, three relays and a 12/24vct transformer. I can’t remember if he went with single zone or three in the end.

some of the issues

  • Reusing the existing relays was debatable since they are 240v ac
  • installing all infinite switches was Ok but the top set of elements was 3600 w which is  the typical limit of an infinite switch.
  • The sequence of operation,  timers etc.. were too bizarre to keep and scrapping everything actually cleaned things up a bunch. Even the sequence of operation read like a bad pneumatic design from back in the day.
  • The biggest issue was to isolate all new relays and wire from the heat generated by the kiln. I believe he made everything remote and ran in approved conductor raceway. No PVC, all metallic grounded stuff and properly sized high temp wire.

The infinite switches presently drive relays, not a great way to use them so keeping some of them was not deemed useful or worth it I believe.

If your wiring matches this schematic relatively closely it’s likely a generation of this model. This was the only ‘N’ suffixed 1029 and it matched his real world wiring..

A proper cord for this is 50 amps so maybe a range cable but dryer cord likely is too small. The cord defined is 2#6’s& 1#8 ground cable  with a 50 amp cord end.

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Edited by Bill Kielb
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There's nothing wrong with using the existing system if you're not comfortable doing any rewiring and replacement of parts. It will work if everything is hooked up properly and al the parts are working. It's not an ideal setup, but hey you work with what you're got. 

The cord must be rated for 50 amps or more or you're going to either cause damage to the kiln or start a fire in your house. The circuit that the kiln plugs in to must be rated for 60 amps. If you're not familiar with electrical systems, I highly recommend calling in a an electrician or kiln tech.

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The cord must be rated for 50 amps or more or you're going to either cause damage to the kiln or start a fire in your house. The circuit that the kiln plugs in to must be rated for 60 amps. If you're not familiar with electrical systems, I highly recommend calling in a an electrician or kiln tech.

 

A dryer cord is not safe for this setup as they are not 50 amp rated-go buy a 50 amp cord and the right plug or hardwire it in

You can get all this at MacmasterCarr.com

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31 minutes ago, SteveGumpl said:

Got the cord end 30/50 amp, that fits wall plug, using old cable (was in great condition), removed dryer cord.  Got 60 amp seamen breaker.  Tomorrow will retry Kilm.  Thanks for advice, will post results as soon as I run through cycle.  Also ordered pyrometer so I can gage temp.  Steve

 

Just to ask, wiring to breaker is #6 gauge ?  If this was formerly a dryer receptacle and had a 30 amp breaker, the wiring in the wall is very likely too small. Just want to be sure you are just not changing the plug and breaker without making sure the wiring is rated to match the new breaker.

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Good question.  I will look.  It had 50 amp breaker in it, but I changed it to 60.  I will pull the breaker and check the wires coming into breaker.  The wire is close to outlet, as breaker box is directly behind outlet.  Maybe 1 foot between breaker and outlet.  I could easily remove breaker box to replace wire if necessary.  If it is not #6, I will replace prior to firing to avoid possible fire.  Thank you for bringing to my attention, did not think of that.  Steve

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