clay lover Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Do any of you know how many firings, ^6 elec., you get before you need to replace the elements in your kiln? I have no idea and wonder. When you replace elements, do you replace relays every time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 About 100 firings, combination of bisque and glaze. When they die before 100 firings, I get sad. When they last longer than 100, I say "woohoo!" I have never replaced a relay on my 9 yr old kiln ever. I'm keep watch on them since I know they are pretty old now. I always look at the thermocouples before I call to order new elements, in case they need replacing too. But I find that thermocouples have a longer life span than elements, so I don't replace them simultaneously every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 About 100 firings is about right for most people. Relays only need to be changed when they fail. But if one fails it's a good idea to replace them all, unless they have only been used for a short time in which case the fail was an anomaly. Relay life can vary greatly depending on the brand of kiln. Thermocouples should be inspected regularly and changed when they sag or start looking pretty crispy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta12 Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Do you use a combination of visual clues (sagging, leaning, laying down elements) and lengthened time for firings to let you know when to replace? Or do you Mea and Neil, simply replace at 100 firings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Do you use a combination of visual clues (sagging, leaning, laying down elements) and lengthened time for firings to let you know when to replace? Or do you Mea and Neil, simply replace at 100 firings? When elements start sagging and laying down, that is a very good indicator that they are wearing out. Ultimately, you need to use a meter to check the resistance. But usually if they look like that they are done. The actual count may be different due to the differences in firings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Umm, reading this I'm wondering if the elements in this kiln need replacing. It's around 4 years old, gets fired every week, sometimes twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEP Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Do you use a combination of visual clues (sagging, leaning, laying down elements) and lengthened time for firings to let you know when to replace? Or do you Mea and Neil, simply replace at 100 firings? I frequently do visual checks of the elements. When I see sagging and leaning, I start planning for an element change, like when to fit it into my production schedule. I'm a cheapskate so I will try to put it off as long as possible. But if a glaze firing takes 20 minutes longer than usual, I'll replace them right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Umm, reading this I'm wondering if the elements in this kiln need replacing. It's around 4 years old, gets fired every week, sometimes twice. Those are really bad. Time to replace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Umm, reading this I'm wondering if the elements in this kiln need replacing. It's around 4 years old, gets fired every week, sometimes twice. Shot! best, ..............john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Thanks guys, I'm pleased to say this isn't my kiln, but they are my mugs in there. (That picture is before firing, not today.) They were underfired when we opened the kiln this morning. Now I know why. Having to wait till 8 January before I can get my hands on them as the centre is closed until then, and I didn't want/couldn't be bothered unloading, bringing them home, putting them in two or three separate loads in my tiny kiln and busting my electricity bill. The centre will be pleased when I tell them the good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Those look toasted. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancylee Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Seriously? 100 firings? My kiln cost over 2500 dollars and you get a lousy 100 firings out of it??? That is horrible!! How much do they cost to replace in a round mid-size skutt kiln? I think this needs to change, I feel really ripped off! I had no idea. Nanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Skutt elements are $49 each, so if you have a 27" tall kiln, $300 for a full set. That's only $3 per firing. Not bad considering you can fit over $1000 dollars worth of work in it. Elements for my 21 cubic foot Davinci cost $94 each, and there's 9 of them. It comes out to no more than $13 dollars per finished glaze load, which holds over $3000 worth of pots. So again, not bad. It hurts when I have to buy elements, but if you do the math it's not much. Just ordered a set the other day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancylee Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 But why do they burn out so fast?? And sadly, I never fire a full load, as I don't make enough at one time. That is going to change, pronto!!!! Thanks, Neil, Nanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Since I only bisque in mine the elements last almost forever. The thing is if I did cone 6 glaze fires in an electric (which is never going to happen) I'd be replacing the elements all the time-its not a cost issue but a TIME issue. Neil is this true (about 100 cone 6 firings) even with a cone 10 rated L$L kiln?? Or is this with cone 8 kilns like scutts?or all electric no mater how they are Temp. rated? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill T. Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I guess I'm a little lucky. My 1027 is about 6 years old with 170 bisque & cone 6 firings on it. Still fires just about on schedule. Had to replace relays twice and redid all the control box wiring. Plan to replace elements in Jan or Feb just to be on the safe side (a little flush with Christmas money). Have on old Gare over 25 years old that my mother-in-law did ceramics in that still fires great. It's too small to take much of a load so I'm planning to make it a raku kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtRoads Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I purchased this kiln L&L Eq2827-3 Equad-Pro Production Kiln in June 2012. (ordered from Neil). The kiln runs to Cone 5 every week, 4-5 times a week. There is some way to get the exact number of firings but I can't figure it out. I have replaced THERMOCOUPLES 2 times. First time the company replaced them for free .... because I didn't understand the guarantee. They give you a 3 year guarantee based on something like 2-3 firings a week. The company told me to look up the number of firings and it was over 200 for a 12 month period. The company replaced first set (and I wasn't pushing after I saw the number of firings) but bought 2nd set of thermocouples and will not ask for another replacement. Replacing thermocouples takes about 5 minutes. OK. I would guess around 330 firings on the original elements. I have a set of elements ready for replacement but have not used. Haven't tested resistance but only see a few random slowdowns on firing. I'm thinking I may need to replace soon. But when I do have to replace, you have to consider the convenience of those element holders. There should be a law that requires kiln manufacturers to use those element holders. I can not be more PLEASED with this kiln or the L&L company. This company is unbelievably helpful and nice. And they don't talk down to you. I have another lesser quality $2500 kiln for bisque. And like Mark said, firing bisque you won't have a problem. I complete trashed one $2500 kiln firing it to Cone 5 and changing elements until the sides ripped out (was changing about every 3 months). Some of these "Cone 10" kilns aren't really able to continuously fire Cone 5-6. The one I had didn't even make 100 firings without needing an element change. I actually replaced my bisque kiln with the exact same model (as the one I trashed) and have had no problems firing bisque and probably won't have to change elements for several years. Some of those kilns just won't do the job of firing to Cone 5-6. Best decision I've made so far: L&L Eq2827-3 Equad-Pro Production Kiln. My business depends on that kiln. I am considering buying another one. The only reason I haven't is I don't really want to increase production more than my existing load. I can not say enough good things about the L&L Eq2827-3 Equad-Pro Production Kiln or the company. (THANK YOU L&L) (Neil tell me how to retrieve that # of firings and I'll report exact number) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted December 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I guess I have been thinking about this backwards. I thought relays lasted a lot longer that elements, but my elements look great, I think I have a relay problem with the variation from 1 firing to the next lately. Always on the bottom. I guess I need to replace relays and leaved the neat, tidy, new looking elements alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancylee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I am so ignorant of all this. Mark, why is a Cone 6 electric firing a time issue? How do you fire? The people who I see firing in those brick ovens (salt firing?) take forever to fill them and then they take days to fire up and cool down? What is faster than electric, except raku? I don't think my teacher has had to replace the elements every 100 firings, that is why I was surprised, although I cam calling my ceramic guy tomorrow to ask. I bought the kiln from him, and he never said a thing about 100 firings!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 About 100 firings is a standard "rule of thumb". Each individual's results will vary....based on MANY variables that no one can predict accurately. If you are getting more.... consider yourself lucky. If you are getting less...... look to youtr ptrocess, clay body, glazes, and routine maintenence for idea for why. Every firing of every type of kiln takes a little piece of life out of it. Set up a "kiln depreciation fund" as part of the cost of goods sold. There is more to firing costs than the gas bill or the electric meter. best, ................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 (Mark, why is a Cone 6 electric firing a time issue? How do you fire? The people who I see firing in those brick ovens (salt firing?) take forever to fill them and then they take days to fire up and cool down? What is faster than electric, The shear volume of work for me put through an electric would kill me and my back as well as my electrics. I fire my car kiln 30-40 times a year -this past year its more like 32 fires along with a smaller gas kiln fired about 21 fires. That's glaze firing to soft cone 11. Thats also an additional 32 bisque fires in the car kiln-the kiln is stackable 35 cubic feet-I load a bisque with 12 x 24 inch sheves averaging 35 shelves per load-almost every week during work cycles I can load a bisque in less than 1 hour and fire in a day(same day as loading) unload the next day-easy same as an electric-With the car kiln and advancer shelves its easy on the back-less bending after 40 years of this you learn to work less than more at the same things its been referred to working smarter by some (I'm not sure if a potters life fits this bill??) Anyway the glaze takes 1 to 2 hours to load depending on forms-If I have many hundred's of small forms it takes longer (the two hours) glaze fires are 12 hour or less-I like to let it cool 1 1/2 days but if rushed one will do. I would be loading how many electrics to get this done???Thats all I would be doing day in and day out. I built my production around a car kiln I have 3 good friends all production potters like me we all have car kilns-that how we fire out cone 10 work. Car kilns are for our volumes of work-on the next scale its tunnel kilns a bit overkill for our small output but great for industrial production. Now salt fires and wood fires require much more preparation as they need wadding under the pots special stacking etc-You can not compare these specialty firing tecniques to electric or reduction gas firing times. My salt fire kiln is way more labor intensive but the results are way different as well. With gas you can blow up a whole load of wet bisque way faster than I can in my electric-just kidding somewhat Nothing is more easy for a pottery that an electric- but it does not make sense for all pottery. The larger production electrics are on almost the same par as smaller gas kilns. But the explosion of electrics is a newer thing-back in the day huge electrics where crude at best-no top hat kilns only front loaders-not on the same plane as a car kiln. I was lucky and got my permits back in the day when this stuff was no big deal now its just the opposite. My business grew with my car kiln over the 35-40 years I have done this-I could not conceive putting my 10 tons a year through an electric kiln no matter what size -electrics are great I own 2 of them but they rarely get used-my 3 gas kilns get the bulk of the ware-its cheaper-easier-and less labor intensive for me The car kiln always made the most sense back in the early 80's and still does. I have changed one set of elements in 40 years and thats for 3 electrics only one set. If I fired 4 times a week 100 fires would eat up lots of time changing them out-I know a production tile shop that fire 10 kilns each day and they are changing elements all the time-(they did not know about L$L kilns) they had Skutts. For me its about Reduction fired glazes in a reduction kiln and thats a gas kiln -Electrics do not like reduction-its hard on the elements. Keep in mind this is my profession not a hobby-I do not know how to approach it from that point of view very well. One last note most folks fire electrics as thats the trend-and this forum has tons of great info on this subject It just does not apply to what I'm doing. If I had to do electric firing it would be with a L&L from Neil as he know his stuff with these kilns and I see why- he's always changing elements-just kidding Neil on the elements. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancylee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 So is gas firing with propane?? And is it really a car kiln??? That is seriously creative!! Love it!! I have to see pictures!! Nanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Since I only bisque in mine the elements last almost forever. The thing is if I did cone 6 glaze fires in an electric (which is never going to happen) I'd be replacing the elements all the time-its not a cost issue but a TIME issue. Neil is this true (about 100 cone 6 firings) even with a cone 10 rated L$L kiln?? Or is this with cone 8 kilns like scutts?or all electric no mater how they are Temp. rated? Mark The peak temp rating of the kiln doesn't matter. It's more about firing schedules, loads, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I guess I'm a little lucky. My 1027 is about 6 years old with 170 bisque & cone 6 firings on it. Still fires just about on schedule. Had to replace relays twice and redid all the control box wiring. Plan to replace elements in Jan or Feb just to be on the safe side (a little flush with Christmas money). Have on old Gare over 25 years old that my mother-in-law did ceramics in that still fires great. It's too small to take much of a load so I'm planning to make it a raku kiln. You won't see the slow down on a computer controlled kiln as much as a manual kiln, because the computer will just cycle the elements on longer to compensate for the lower heat output. It's usually not until they get really bad that it will slow down enough to be noticeable, or until you get an error code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I guess I have been thinking about this backwards. I thought relays lasted a lot longer that elements, but my elements look great, I think I have a relay problem with the variation from 1 firing to the next lately. Always on the bottom. I guess I need to replace relays and leaved the neat, tidy, new looking elements alone? The only way unevenness will be caused by a relay is if you have a sticky one. But they often fail soon after they start sticking. I would first look at how you're loading the kiln- possibly too tight at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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