SFKeller Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 I want to double check that I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly. I'm redoing a kiln I purchased used. The previous owner (I bought it from someone that purchased from them and then never used it) had installed elements for 208. It is a 240 kiln and I verified with Skutt that I should be ok going forward with the correct elements. I was installing elements in the last ring and suddenly got paranoid that the previous person did it correctly. I would appreciate if someone can check my diagram and the wiring diagram from Skutt to make sure I'm reading things correctly. I know this is probably super simple for you kiln gurus. I gaining a new appreciation for electricians, especially for grip strength crimping those durn connectors! I really appreciate your time. Sandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 19 hours ago, SFKeller said: I was installing elements in the last ring and suddenly got paranoid that the previous person did it correctly. It's always a good idea to cross-check if you can. With the kiln unpowered (and hence relays open) you might measure the resistances between the terminals on the contact block. The element resistances are given in https://skutt.com/pdf/service_manual/11_4.pdf MODEL VOLT PHASE #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 KM1227 240 1 13.6 13.6 16.3 16.3 13.6 13.6 The circuit diagram shows the two elements in each ring are wired in parallel, so the resistances should be: [1]->[2] = 13.6/2 = 7.8 ohms [3]->[4] = 16.3/2 = 8.15 ohms [5]->[6] = 13.6/2 = 7.8 ohms SFKeller, iffetorbay and Bill Kielb 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 Looks right from your drawing, elements in parallel. I like @PeterH double check confirming 1/2 resistance of each pair in parallel. SFKeller and iffetorbay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKeller Posted August 18 Author Report Share Posted August 18 Thanks to both of you. Just borrowed a multimeter from my daughter and son in law so now I have a new tool to play with! For once I followed my instinct and would have messed things up if I had followed how they were labeled on the wires. (which may have been my goof) I did mess up one of those nasty crimp connectors since I had installed one end before stopping to check, but I did buy extra. Thanks again. Sandi. PeterH and Bill Kielb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKeller Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 Everything tested out and I had a successful test firing to condition the elements. Almost........I flipped the lid since the "previous inside" had some flaking. Now the "new inside" has some flaking and blistering which showed up after the firing. Since I am planning to use it for glaze firing, that is a problem. I'm trying to decide if I should buy a new lid, flip the top and bottom, or keep my fingers crossed and find one I can salvage from another kiln. Since I found out my controller is an older model and there might be issues with changing the relays (according to the Skutt technician I talked with) I'm trying to figure out if I should throw more money at it or not. I thought I did my research but this one piece escaped me. I should have known better. I'm too used to my kiln sitter kiln lasting forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 (edited) I would flip top for bottom and maybe as a last resort rigid high temp (2300f) insulation can be used on the interior to extend the life for years. More of an exotic upgrade solution to save some energy top and bottom. Easy, 100.00 dollar ish, but more of an upgrade technique. The relay issue is likely cooling so relocating to the bottom of the cabinet and or improving the updraft or adding a small cooling fan likely an easy solution. Edited August 26 by Bill Kielb SFKeller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKeller Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 Thanks for the info. It's good to know if for some reason the top/bottom swap doesn't work there is another alternative. I will plan on using a cooling fan. I may have located a used EnviroVent to add which I've read that one of the side benefits is keeping the control box cooler and extending things. However the real reason for that direction is better venting since I plan to turn it into a primary bisque kiln at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted August 27 Report Share Posted August 27 22 hours ago, SFKeller said: Since I found out my controller is an older model and there might be issues with changing the relays (according to the Skutt technician I talked with) What's the story here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKeller Posted August 29 Author Report Share Posted August 29 Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town. I called to see if they could figure out the age of the controller by the serial number (its a 2000 model which is not the first, but an older controller) so I could determine what manual I needed to go by to figure out how to program it. He asked me if I knew when the relays were changed and recommended that I replace the relays with the elements. I hate to admit how dumb I was about kilns with controllers but somehow I missed that as being a consumable. In my defense, the need for relays being replaced on a regular schedule is not mentioned in the manual. The technician was concerned about the age of the controller and said it could possibly being one that uses a different wiring harness that what they are using now. Especially since I do plan on doing both bisque and cone 6 firings in it. (and play with some glazes that require a cooling schedule so that means more clicks on the relays) I did not take the controller box apart to look as I had just got everything back together and was anxious to do my test fire. Pretty sure it using the old clear relays and they appear to be around $50 x 3 for replacement. Just keeping my fingers crossed that the wiring harness stays good. The wires for the elements are in good shape, but they could have been replaced. It is the 1227 KM model rated for cone 8, which they estimate I will get around 75 firings at cone 6. It has been an education and if I ever decide to splurge on a new electric kiln in the future I have a different perspective. It's so easy to just see the initial cost. But I will definitely look at the long term cost of replacing elements and relays and electric consumption as well as the initial cost of purchasing the kiln. Reading the advice from members on the forum has shown me that I should be able to keep it going for a few years. I do appreciate all the help. Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted August 29 Report Share Posted August 29 53 minutes ago, SFKeller said: Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town. I called to see if they could figure out the age of the controller by the serial number (its a 2000 model which is not the first, but an older controller) so I could determine what manual I needed to go by to figure out how to program it. He asked me if I knew when the relays were changed and recommended that I replace the relays with the elements. I hate to admit how dumb I was about kilns with controllers but somehow I missed that as being a consumable. In my defense, the need for relays being replaced on a regular schedule is not mentioned in the manual. The technician was concerned about the age of the controller and said it could possibly being one that uses a different wiring harness that what they are using now. Especially since I do plan on doing both bisque and cone 6 firings in it. (and play with some glazes that require a cooling schedule so that means more clicks on the relays) I did not take the controller box apart to look as I had just got everything back together and was anxious to do my test fire. Pretty sure it using the old clear relays and they appear to be around $50 x 3 for replacement. Just keeping my fingers crossed that the wiring harness stays good. The wires for the elements are in good shape, but they could have been replaced. It is the 1227 KM model rated for cone 8, which they estimate I will get around 75 firings at cone 6. It has been an education and if I ever decide to splurge on a new electric kiln in the future I have a different perspective. It's so easy to just see the initial cost. But I will definitely look at the long term cost of replacing elements and relays and electric consumption as well as the initial cost of purchasing the kiln. Reading the advice from members on the forum has shown me that I should be able to keep it going for a few years. I do appreciate all the help. That's what I though you were going to say. If the control box has 5 louvers in the top it uses the clear relays. If it has 6 louvers it uses the black relays. However, there was a short period of transition where they were using the black relays in the 5 louver box, but they had to use a wiring harness with right angle terminals since the box is shallow and the terminals are on the top of the relays. The black relays tend to run hot and die early in the shallower box, so they made the box deeper to get more air flow and keep them cooler and use the regular straight terminals. So if your box has 5 louvers but has the black relays, you'll want to change them to the clear relays and you'll have to get a regular wiring harness with the straight terminals. Hulk and SFKeller 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKeller Posted August 30 Author Report Share Posted August 30 It is a 5 louver box. I'll take a look at it thngs this weekend and see which ones my relays are. Thanks for letting me know what I will need to switch out. Hulk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 14 hours ago, SFKeller said: t is a 5 louver box. I'll take a look at it thngs this weekend and see which ones my relays are. Thanks for letting me know what I will need to switch out. Just a quick note, your idea to power cool this box likely improves the longevity of this a bunch. I think these relays are near the top (Not the best spot) and the volume of space a bit small so your power cooling probably pays big dividends in longevity of operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted August 30 Report Share Posted August 30 6 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: Just a quick note, your idea to power cool this box likely improves the longevity of this a bunch. I think these relays are near the top (Not the best spot) and the volume of space a bit small so your power cooling probably pays big dividends in longevity of operation. Relays are at the bottom, as that is the coolest spot in the box. There's really no need to add a cooling fan to the control box. These kilns have worked just fine for decades without one, however if you really want to it will extend the life of the relays. Keep the kiln room cool and everything will work just fine. If you find that the relays are burning out prematurely, then replace the wiring harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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