paperclay How do I work out the support when hand building an animal in paper clay?

[Terri98]

I think different clays offer different benefits depending on what I am making.  I normally work with stoneware with added grog and kyanite.  I do a lot of Raku.  There are some benefits that paper clay offers that I am hoping to discover.  I think paperclay might allow more opportunity to create animals that are walking or standing.  What I have seen is people build the pieces hollow.  Traditionally I build my pieces solid, then hollow them out. Maybe paper clay would save time, and allow different positioning. 

My first paper clay sculpt is a shape built solid.  I did hollow it out via the bottom.  May still be on the thick side.  I have a lot of stone ware, big pieces that are thick without issue.  I do not know the limitation or concerns with paper clay and thickness.  

My 2nd sculpt is a pig.  I built the body including shape for head hollow.  Used the pinch method.  Used paper towels stuffed inside to provide support as I handle the piece.  My biggest challenge is adding the legs and providing support as I finish the piece and add other details.  Currently using clay and part of a paper roll tube.  When I have tried to work on it the legs squish down.  Going forward what kind of support or armature can be used with paper clay?  How thick can paper clay be?  What about adding kyanite

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Part of the glory of paper clay is that you can attach pieces that have very different dryness levels. So don’t be afraid of letting pieces really set up before attaching.

Paper clay lends itself well to thin slab work as well as pinching. Because of the added green strength, you can make super thin walls that survive to bisque. I’ve made thin slabs into sealed hollow pieces that can then be built upon. The air pocket inside is enough to support a surprising amount of weight, if you’re adding equally thin walled pieces. 

Are you buying the prepared stuff or making it from reclaim?
 

[Denice]

You will need to do some testing on how thin you can make it.   I made a 20 inch vase with thin paper walls,  when I unloaded the kiln I found out the walls were too thin and had warped.   I  keep my paperclay  in dry slabs,   if you keep it moist for a few months it starts molding.   My homemade molded very quickly,   the purchased didn't show any signs of mold for 6 months.   The purchased had a better consistency to work with,  I believe it was Laguna.     Denice

[Terri98]

The paper clay I am using is Laguna for raku.   I am not ready to try to make paperclay yet.  On my current sculpts in paperclay the walls are not too thin.  Possibly too thick. It is all very strange to me.  So different from regular clay.

[Rebekah Krieger]

Look at the Merry art toons workshop pictures. (Mary Susan cate) she uses a series of pool noodles etc for the building process. Paper clay is surprisingly strong and also maintains moisture. 
if your base is good usually there is not much need to worry about slumping when firing. 

[Hyn Patty]

I do a lot of slip casting of fine art equine pieces with very thin legs.  They aren't hand built (though I have done a lot of that over the years as well) and I haven't really worked with paper clay.  But here are a few tips. 

When I cast a complicated sculpture like my Porthos, I work the legs and body as much as I reasonably can /before/ I attach the legs.  If I poured the body too thick or it didn't drain right I can slice it open up the middle and scoop it out, and slip stick it back together - which I did recently at a workshop just to show that we could do that if we didn't want to simply pour another body with the correct thickness.

Then I stick the legs on after cleaning while in the leather hard stage.  I ONLY stand it up long enough to check that the legs and feet are positioned correctly and long enough with a light fan on it to stiffen up the legs while supported.  Then I never stand it up again if I can help it until it's completely dried.  I keep it in my wet box lying on it's side, back or whatever until I am completely done with detailing it and ready to dry up the leather hard stage to completely dry.  Then I can stand it up and double check things once more before it goes into the kiln for a low heat soak before bisque firing.  Really fragile at this dry stage so I don't attempt to fuss with the feet much at that point.  Better to fire it and then level the feet again.

Lastly, if it doesn't stand perfectly flat once bisque fired?  I just sand the bottom of the feet until the hooves are nice and flat without any wobble.  Or I can rough up the bottom of a hoof and add a little bisque mender if needed.  Pretty simple.  Doesn't matter if it's earthenware or a porcelain body, it's still fixable if you use the right stuff.  I haven't worked in stoneware a lot but I'm sure if you are using a 'diamond' grit sand paper you'll be able to do the same.  That way, no compression down on those legs at any point.

Attaching a phot of one of my 'curio' scale Porthos in ceramic.  You can see the legs are pretty slender.  The legs weren't added until the rest of him was assembled and cleaned up.  Once the legs are on all I have to do is clean up those attachment points and add wrinkles or other last details before drying him.  I'm also attaching a photo of a Wee Bairn with SUPER THIN legs that I cast whole without assembly.  I only stand them up briefly to check the position of the itty bitty hooves then do all the rest of the work while it's lying on it's side.  I ever fire the Wee Bairn foals lying down and then do any last fixes in the bisque stage.  Some of the foals are put on bases and some are left free standing without a base when I sold them.  I hope this helps!

[Callie Beller Diesel]

@Hyn Patty cast slip and paper clay are almost polar opposites in how they behave pre-bisque. The green strength of paper clay is incredible, and it lets you do all the things you avoid in slipcast pieces with ease. Your skills with slipcasting are top notch, its just a different set of concerns. 

The (wet) sanding after bisque is a good idea though, but for different reasons. The paper fibre interferes with sandpaper, and if you want to get rid of attaching texture you’ll get a smoother finish on bisque. 

Building with paper clay gives you the greenware equivalent of concrete with rebar. The thing you have to keep in mind is that once the “rebar” burns out, there’s hollows left behind. So depending on how much fibre is in there, the end ceramic can range from a slightly more porous version of the clay body, or it might slump/warp more easily in the kiln, or be really friable if a lot of pulp was used in a home brew. 

[Hyn Patty]

24 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

@Hyn Patty cast slip and paper clay are almost polar opposites in how they behave pre-bisque. The green strength of paper clay is incredible, and it lets you do all the things you avoid in slipcast pieces with ease. Your skills with slipcasting are top notch, its just a different set of concerns. 

You are absolutely right that I know very little about paper clay.  Still seems like my advice not to be standing the pieces up while still working on it however would help with the issue of compressed legs.  That was my only point, plus the sanding after if needed.  I don't think the exact materials being used even matters.  Compression and distortion of the legs is still going to be an issue whether you are working with paper clay or terra cotta, etc.  It doesn't matter.  It's a mechanical issue to do with how the piece is being worked on, IMO, not the material.  I've worked with a very large variety of clays over the many decades and this applies to all of them when building an animal form standing up on legs before firing.

 

Edited August 7 by Hyn Patty
Clarified my comment.

[Hyn Patty]

Now, if working on the piece while not standing it up on it's legs is really a no go for you, here are a few more options that I have used or had my students use over the years.  Again the kind of clay being used isn't really relevant.  If the legs are thick enough as they are in the pig piece shown, then another option is to use built in supports that can burn out.  Wadded up stiff paper or rolled cardboard inside of the legs can offer additional support to the clay and simply burns out when fired later.  Add holes in the bottom of the pig's feet and the ashes are easily removed after to avoid having them rattle around inside the piece later.

Or you can use a wire armature.  Yes, I can hear you cringe already and before you say it'll crack or explode ... you use the /right/ kind of wire.  Kanthal high temperature wire is what is used in our kilns.  Both for kiln furniture that has stilt supports and for the elements.  You can buy Kanthal wire (fires up to cone 10) and it's more reliable at higher cones than Nichrome wire.   You get a nice heavy gage rods or wire spool and you can use mutiple pieces straight or spiraled like a heavy spring to help support those legs.  Then when you bisque fire it the wire stays in there forever, embedded in the clay body.  I use Kanthal wire all of the time to do kiln fired repairs of broken pieces I restore and reglaze.  It is often used with porcelain pieces that are very delicate and need extra support for thin lacy, arching forms.

Lastly you can also support externally as is already being used.   Just use more of it than you are if you are still getting compression on the legs.  If nothing else it gives you a few more options to try.  Good luck - the pig looks wonderful!

Edited August 7 by Hyn Patty
typo

[Denice]

Thank you for your info on your legs technique,  I just finished the head on my dog sculpture and starting on the body.   I have only sculpted people in the past,  I have been pondering on how to approach the two front legs.  I have my dog sitting with his head turned up looking at his owner.   I will only have the two legs to deal with,  I am using  a stoneware that is very gritty.  It is not getting glazed  it may have some areas with a light wash.   I need to do some testing.  Denice