AMO Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 I have an Olympic Kiln Model 2327 that I bought just over a year ago. I was able to get about 10 firings in before it started displaying Err1. After analysis, it was evident 3 elements needed to be replaced. After replacing, the kiln fired 4 times before giving me "FAIL". I performed the T/C By-pass test and was getting a room temp reading. I ordered a new thermocouple and installed. The kiln gave me another 4 firings before giving me "FAIL" again. Performed the T/C By-pass test once more with the same outcome. I replaced the thermocouple again, this time the kiln gave me 3 firings before receiving "FAIL". Again, I ran the T/C By-pass test which indicated I needed to replace the thermocouple once more. I replaced the thermocouple and the kiln game me two firings before receiving "FAIL". I repeated the process once more and got only 1 firing out of the kiln before "FAIL". Seeking guidance on how to proceed. The only code the controller is giving me is "FAIL", each time the "T/C By-pass test” reads room temperature. Lost and need guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulk Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) Hi AMO, Welcome to the forum! Please indicate if the kiln was new when you bought it, the thermocouple type you are using when replacing, and the cone you're shooting for when glaze firing, just for context, which may help the kiln experts. added: what controller type and model? Edited January 27, 2023 by Hulk oh yeah, controller model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 26, 2023 Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 Hi @AMO, welcome to the forum! How are you doing the bypass test? What thermocouples are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) This doesn't sound like a fun problem to solve I would be interested if you still had all the old thermocouples to try swapping them around and see if any of them get the kiln working again as it sounds like a really weird problem. They don't seem to exactly be broken if you can get it to read room temperature in the bypass. Edited January 27, 2023 by High Bridge Pottery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 27, 2023 Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 This problem seems oddly familiar to me. I had 2 Paragon kilns that the ever fatal error codes; and I likewise replaced thermocouple and elements of one of the two. After replacing both an one: the beloved error code again. So I took the thermocouple wiring block apart again and restrung the thermocouple wires again- another TC fail. Took it apart again; this time while I was mounting the terminal block back on the kiln; I noticed the thermocouple wires compressed, and touched each other. I took it apart again, this time I put some insulating fiber between the thermocouple wires and gently held them apart while mounting the terminal block back on the kiln wall…. No more TC error after that. Tom PeterH, Roberta12, High Bridge Pottery and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMO Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, neilestrick said: Hi @AMO, welcome to the forum! How are you doing the bypass test? What thermocouples are you using? Hey @neilestrick , thank you! To perform the bypass test I would first remove the thermocouple. Then using spare wire, I would bridge the thermocouple terminals connected to the back of the controller. Room temp reading each time. The first thermocouple I tried was a kiln specific Olympic type K. After that failed I began using universal Type K thermocouples from The Ceramic Shop. 23 hours ago, neilestrick said: Hi @AMO, welcome to the forum! How are you doing the bypass test? What thermocouples are you using? Edited January 27, 2023 by AMO tagged wrong person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMO Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 13 hours ago, High Bridge Pottery said: This doesn't sound like a fun problem to solve I would be interested if you still had all the old thermocouples to try swapping them around and see if any of them get the kiln working again as it sounds like a really weird problem. They don't seem to exactly be broken if you can get it to read room temperature in the bypass. Hey @High Bridge Pottery This is a good idea! I'll definitely give it a try. Perhaps a temporary fix at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMO Posted January 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, glazenerd said: This problem seems oddly familiar to me. I had 2 Paragon kilns that the ever fatal error codes; and I likewise replaced thermocouple and elements of one of the two. After replacing both an one: the beloved error code again. So I took the thermocouple wiring block apart again and restrung the thermocouple wires again- another TC fail. Took it apart again; this time while I was mounting the terminal block back on the kiln; I noticed the thermocouple wires compressed, and touched each other. I took it apart again, this time I put some insulating fiber between the thermocouple wires and gently held them apart while mounting the terminal block back on the kiln wall…. No more TC error after that. Tom Hey @glazenerd I think you're onto something here. Based off the manual, electrical noise can create this problem. It typically pertains to relays but I'm wondering if the close proximity of the thermocouple wiring without insulation is the culprit. Thank you for this jewel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 @glazenerd can you post a picture of what you're talking about here? With the ceramic TC blocks typically used in these kilns, I don't see how the exposed ends of the wire could possibly be touching each other since they're attached to the block a good 1.5" away from each other, and the rest of the wire has insulation on it. Were the wires stripped back really far? @AMO only the very ends of the TC wires should be stripped back, just enough to fit into the holes in the block. Also, fold over the ends of the wires so they're double thick under the screws. I highly doubt your thermocouples are actually worn out, but clearly there's a problem in the system. Was the original TC you replaced clearly worn out, or did it still look okay? Since you were in there changing the elements, it's possible that there's a kink or break or loose connection in the thermocouple wires. The test you ran only checks that the controller is reading correctly, which is rarely the problem. Check to make sure there's not a break in the TC wire under one of the screws on the block. I see that happen a lot, and it will give you spotty readings or random fails. If everything looks good there, take the two ends of the TC wire out of the block and hold them together. It should read room temp, or the temp of your fingers. Then wiggle around the wires while they're together and see if the reading changes. If it does, then there's something wrong in the wires themselves. High Bridge Pottery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 Neil: Do not have a pic. I am talking about the thermocouple wires from the back of the block, entering through the kiln wall. Immediately behind the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly in AK Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 I’ll confess I’m out of my league with the vagaries of electric kilns, I just expect them to work. Like my phone. Still, I’ll offer my thoughts in case it helps. I’ve had thermocouples that were very corroded and worked fine. A “newish” one is probably not the culprit, provided you have the right type for your controller and firing range. As alluded to above, the wiring would be my first suspect. Presently I have two thermocouples in my gas kiln going to one pyrometer (they have no say in the firing, just provide information). I’ve seen the slightest wiggle of the wires produce wild results on the pyrometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 I didn't realise you are bridging the contacts to bypass and get a reading. I am surprised it would read room temperature as from the mV type K table 0 volts should be 0 celsius. Maybe I am missing a bit of the equation and it automatically puts 0 volts as the reference junction temperature reading. Hopefully it is just a wiring issue and not too difficult to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 28, 2023 Report Share Posted January 28, 2023 10 hours ago, glazenerd said: Neil: Do not have a pic. I am talking about the thermocouple wires from the back of the block, entering through the kiln wall. Immediately behind the block. Ah, you mean the thermocouple itself, not the wires that connect it to the controller. Yes, if that hole is too small then the TC could touch the metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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