Dry clay to use for curing "the spins" in a Peter Pugger?

[Crooked Lawyer Potter]

I was advised by the Peter Pugger folks to add some "dry clay" to the mix as a remedy for "the spins" (pugger dont pug cause the whole ball of moist clay revolves rather than mixes).

I'm sure the ideal dry clay would be the a dry version of the moist clay being pugged, but if you dont have such -- what then?  Is there a dry ingredient that would not significantly alter the composition of the moist clay being pugged?   Ball clay maybe?  Or EPK?

The clay being pugged is mid-fire -- Laguna B-Mix.

[fergusonjeff]

Adding dry clay is usually unnecessary (unless your mix is just too wet to begin with).  I did buy a few bags of a dry cone 6 stoneware I can add if needed.  Usually adding a baseball-softball sized lump of regular clay and then closing but not latching the lid usually works.  The clay will push up into the opening and break the spin.  Then close and latch the lid and let it mix.  Sometimes I have to do this a few times. 

[Mark C.]

You could dry some of your regular clay break it down to chunks and add that.If you start adding ball clay or epk then that will affect your clay body possiably negatively . Another idea is scoop out some goo from machine and dry it on plaster then add it back. You need to dry the clay on pl;aster a bit if its to wet before adding it to pugger. I do this all the time. works great.

[Piedmont Pottery]

I sometimes add a bit of kyanite to batches that are a bit too wet, especially if its a batch for slab work.  I always test a bit of the clay to make sure its not too hard or too short for its intended use, slab or wheel.  I roll up a pencil size cylinder and then bend it into a circle.  Ideally for the wheel I don't want to see any cracking at the bend,  and I add a bit of hydrated veegum T to increase plasticity if needed.  Almost all of my use of the pugmill is processing scrap from classes and production work, so its a bit different than starting with defined quantities of dry materials in each batch.  

[Crooked Lawyer Potter]

(Just a follow-up to my first post on my new Peter Pugger that I hope will be of comfort to new owners.)

I was initially very distressed over the Peter Pugger VPM-7 I bought because it would not "extrude" much clay.  I would put a lot in, but very little came out.  I have come to understand that it is essential to fill the hopper absolutely full before trying to extrude any out.  The best tip I got from them was to keep filling until the hopper door (unlatched) buckles up while pugging to the extent that the unit's safety switch will cut it off.  This is a good indication that its full to the brim.  Indeed, it seems to me that there must be some sort of initial "break-in" process whereby all the new unit's empty nooks and crannies finally get clay in them and the unit will really put out a good long log of pugged clay.

I had imagined that you could just put 5 or 10 pounds in to it, pugged a bit, and then could extrude the entire 5 or 10 pounds back out.  That has not been my experience.  Instead, I have had to get used to filling it up completely, then getting out a nice long log, but with a substantial amount of clay remaining in the hopper all the time. (It stays nice and moist in there)

Bottom line: The folks at Peter Pugger have been very patient and helpful as I worked thru these issues and I do love the unit and very happy I have it now.

[Mark C.]

I own and use two peter puggers so I know your learning curve-the real issue is size of machine

That said they all do exactly the same thing and they do it well

The VPM 7s are just to darn small-the output that is

the VPM 9 also is pretty small

not the machine as much as the whole mixing chamber which get really small in thiose smaller units

All clay mixers and puggers hold larger volumes of clay that never make it out the barrel-in the nooks and crannies as you said. Folks new to this need to understand that 25#s in does not equal 25#s out more like 2/3 of that if you are lucky

That relationship is pretty constant My larger VPM 30 holds 85#s of clay when its 100% full and I'll be lucky to get 55#s out the other end.

same is true with my VPM-SS 20 45# capacity -and 30#s output

As you noted you need to add clay turn it on so the hopper clay is away from entry hole and add more etc until you cannot close the hopper almost so ikts jambed full 100% to get your maximum output. This process takes a bit of learning-its also harder with smaller amounts in those smaller machines . The VPM 7 is just to darn small.

This company makes a great product but after they sold all the larger units to schools and professionals they went for the hobby market and the VPM 9 was that go to unit. (I have full timer potter freiend with one of those) He said its output is way to small for him.

They should have stopped making any smaller machines at the VPM 9 instead they shrunk it down again to the VPM 7-That machine will only output 2/3 of whats in it-its max capacity is only 14#s so on a good day you get 2/3 of that 14#s of clay-just over 8#s

My advice as all the machines are  just within a 1000$ of each other ($4k-5K) is to get the larger machine the VPM 9 is the smallest machine in my view you should consider.

As noted in above pots you need to stuff that hopper full turn it on a second stuff it again and again until you can only force it closed and then its full to get your most output. This is less importaant in the larger machines VPM 20s and above as the outputs are just better amounts.

On needs to look at batch capacity in all Peter Puggers and realize outputs are 2/3 of that no matter what the size of machine

You are not the fist person who feels the 7 is to small and for justa few hundred more dollars one can get the VPM 9 which hold 25#s so you get 2/3 of that which is about 16#s

For me as a professional the VPM 20 is a s small as I would ever consider as it holds 45#s and you get 30#s

A standard box of clay is 50#sin two 25# pugs-so if your output is only 8#s well you get the point its just a small log of clay even for a hobbist

 

[kswan]

I've ordered the VPM 9SS a couple months ago and waiting to receive it. This is good to know about the capacity and output. My forearms and wrists have been getting very aggravated by wedging my clay, so I felt it was time to get this equipment. I work pretty slowly, so I hope this size will be just what I need.  I like the fact that the clay can stay wet inside it and then add more clay as needed. I have mostly been handbuilding these days, and there are always the cut off ends that need to be reclaimed. I can't wait to be able to stick them right in a pugmill and not have to try to wedge out by hand the million air pockets that form. 

I also use B Mix 5, so thanks @Crooked Lawyer Potter for sharing your insights in using the pugmill! I'm sure I will be scouring these posts again when I start using mine. 

 

[oldlady]

kswan, i use my pugmill for that exact reason, at 81 i do not need to develop arthritis or other hand and wrist trouble.   my bailey 400 works so well to wedge that i do not use it until i have a bunch of semiwet cutoffs from handbuilding.   i roll a huge piece at a time and using cookie cutters provides a good pile of leftover clay to run through the machine.   i use that output for throwing. though i do not throw much anymore in relation to the slab work.

straight out of the bag clay is best for handbuilding, imo,    i can cut off a thick piece, inch and a half by the length of the rectangle Highwater sells and slap and stretch it onto a printers blanket on the floor.   concrete floor is good for something!  slapped and stretched to about 22 inches by 3/4 inch thick, the slab roller flattens it without any bubbles.  that size produces a 22 by 27 or so slab the thickness i want to use for everything i make.  

because of the clay shortage, i pugged everything i had, recent cutoffs, wet slip from throwing and all the buckets of dry pieces i had saved over the last couple of years.  an overnight soak in those buckets of dry scraps  produced the wet stuff that i mix with the drier cutoffs and it all comes out perfectly.   brought it all down here and found that the clay shortage leaves me at the bottom of the list when clay comes in.   so glad i have it.

[kswan]

@oldlady Yes, that's what I do with handbuilding as well! My clay is too hard out of the bag for throwing without wedging, but it goes so nicely through my slab roller and is ready to go.  I have been solely handbuilding the last few months. It's cold in my basement studio and I don't like having my hands in the cold water for too long. Even with a space heater next to me, it's not enjoyable. 

I still have a few buckets of dry trimmings and scraps that I will slake and reclaim at some point. I'm leaving them until I get the Peter Pugger Picked a Peck of... sorry that's where my mind goes when I read the name. I can add some of the slaked clay to my bagged clay make it softer for throwing, I'm hoping. 

[oldlady]

it helps to cut the pieces into golf ball size or a little bigger.   clay from the bag that is too hard can be softened by cutting it into cubes and dipping one in water and alternating a dry piece and one you dip in water.   you can always pug it again which is the nice part.   i stack mine in a 5 gallon bucket on a rolling disc and move it to the wheel.   if i do not use it all that day, i just turn the pugs on the opposite end so any water evens out.    if i don't get to it for a week or so, back into the pugmill for a quick refresh.

[oldlady]

i use  an inexpensive electric tea kettle to heat some water to make the cold stuff bearable.  lets me work longer even in 3 wool sweaters.