Fish Print on Bisqueware. Underglaze that is safe to eat in liquid form?

[troyceramics]

Hello All!

I have a weird question. I'm looking to do a print of an actual fish on bisqueware, then fire the cup or bowl to cone 6. After capturing the print, I would like to eat the fish so it doesn't go to waste.  I was originally thinking about using Mayco's velvet underglaze to use as "ink" then wash it off after printing.  However, I don't think that would be very food safe, especially if I'm doing a lot of pieces like this. Does anyone have experience with some kind of food safe ink (in it's liquid form and fired form) that will last a firing? I know fish printing experts (gyotaku) use india ink so that the fish can be consumed afterwards. Thank you in advance for any input!

 

Troy

[Mark C.]

I know lots about fish printing and ceramics so  a ceramic transfer then eating is best by washing fish and maybe even skinning the fish to get the glaze /colorants off it. Food safe ink are only going to burn off the pot you need colorants.

[Min]

I wonder if you could use red iron oxide + water + a food safe gum to thicken it so it doesn't just run off and make a big mess. Brush on the fish, do the print then wash it off. 

Welcome to the forum.

[PeterH]

8 hours ago, Mark C. said:

I know lots about fish printing and and ceramics so  a ceramic transfer then eating is best by washing fish and maybe even skinning the fish to get the glaze /colorants off it. Food safe ink are only going to burn off the pot you need colorants.

Any chance of outlining your process, in particular is it the  "photographic" production of a decal or a monoprint technique? (Realising that for a 3d subject a combination of approaches is possible.)

[Mark C.]

You coat the fish with pigments and inks and roll onto rice paper or fabric . Its a one off deal. You can take that print and burn onto a silk screen for more images . I have a friend who is a Master Fish printer at one time but is pretty long in the tooth now-lives in Kona Hi.He just visited us. I wear fish print tee shirts every day of my life-they are all unique. Our house is full of fish prints some are fish I caught. Tuna Salmon etc

My wife took his class 20 years ago when he taught a few at the marine lab.Its not a photo porocess at all. Its a hands on coat the fish and roll it on paper. You come in later and paint the eye

[Mark C.]

I go back a long way will Bill Twibell-when he moved back from Molokai to Humboldt county to raise his two boys(1980)-they where my 1st employees  selling pottery

Here are a few  prints from Bill in our  bathrooms and living room

all on rice paper.

The tuna one is huge-the rest are meduim size prints

https://fishprintguy.com/portfolio/

I have at least 50 tee shirts all one of a kind all with pockets-maybe a 100? who's counting

One could do this with ceramic pigments but 1st learn the tradition way as it will be easier as fish are hard to print. I have no interest myself in this as the prints and my shirts are enough.

We are surounded by nautical items from decades of diving  and underwater photos and fish fit right in to that mix.

Now fish mugs well thats a story I already posted about making them years ago with photos here.

[Babs]

On 8/27/2021 at 11:16 AM, Mark C. said:

I go back a long way will Bill Twibell-when he moved back from Molokai to Humboldt county e.

 

So would this work with a catch and release policy?:-)

[PeterH]

50 minutes ago, Babs said:

So would this work with a catch and release policy?:-)

Apparently so ...

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/gyotaku-japanese-fish-printing
In its heyday, gyotaku was a fisherman’s best bet for bragging rights. It was used to document “trophy catches”—anything big or unusual enough that other fishermen would need to see it to believe it. As photography had just been invented and definitely could not be used on a fishing boat in roiling waves, fishermen kept on board a chest of rice paper, nontoxic sumi-e ink, and a set of brushes. As soon they caught a fish, it was a simple matter of dipping it in ink and slapping it on a piece of paper. After printing the catch, the fishermen would simply rinse off the ink and either release the fish, take it to market, or eat it themselves. These prints were not artful at that time, but more utilitarian. As the trend caught on, fishermen began adding to their prints with brushes, such as the detail of an eye or the color of scales

[Mark C.]

Maybe back in the day but modern fish printers work in studios not on boats fishing. My friend trades with fishermen  for fish he cannot catch from shore in Hi.

[Babs]

Guess big bucks could be added to the catch and release prints:-))

[PeterH]

6 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Maybe back in the day but modern fish printers work in studios not on boats fishing. My friend trades with fishermen  for fish he cannot catch from shore in Hi.

Sorry if I caused any offence. I simply wanted to mention that the origins of the practice sometimes included Babs' catch and release policy.

Hence the quote
In its heyday ... photography had just been invented ...  either release the fish ...

And the reference to a page whose title emphasises the evolution of the practice over the next couple of centuries
How the Traditional Japanese Art of Fish Printing Inspired a Modern Art Form

[Mark C.]

Peter none taken -I saw the reference as to how they caught and released-

Now its a slow art process and fish is rarley eaten

[troyceramics]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:46 PM, Mark C. said:

I go back a long way will Bill Twibell-when he moved back from Molokai to Humboldt county to raise his two boys(1980)-they where my 1st employees  selling pottery

Here are a few  prints from Bill in our  bathrooms and living room

all on rice paper.

The tuna one is huge-the rest are meduim size prints

https://fishprintguy.com/portfolio/

I have at least 50 tee shirts all one of a kind all with pockets-maybe a 100? who's counting

One could do this with ceramic pigments but 1st learn the tradition way as it will be easier as fish are hard to print. I have no interest myself in this as the prints and my shirts are enough.

We are surounded by nautical items from decades of diving  and underwater photos and fish fit right in to that mix.

Now fish mugs well thats a story I already posted about making them years ago with photos here.

Thank you so much Mark for all of this info! I love seeing all these beautiful fish prints on his website, especially some favorites of mine like the brown trout and striped bass. And yes, it sounds like I'll have to make a print of the fish on paper first, then make an underglaze transfer out of it. I have a friend in Hawaii that does gyotaku so I can start with some of his black/white scans. 

[troyceramics]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:44 PM, Min said:

I wonder if you could use red iron oxide + water + a food safe gum to thicken it so it doesn't just run off and make a big mess. Brush on the fish, do the print then wash it off. 

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you Min! The community in this forum is amazing. 

 I will look into iron oxide. That would look really nice as an alternative to just black underglaze. 

[oldlady]

thank you, mark.  you have identified the imaginary fish i have been making for years.  it closely resembles the parrotfish in Bill Twibell's photos.  i have always exaggerated the lips and eye but now find the parrotfish might actually have those big lips!

[oldlady]

i did it!   not the best fish or photo, but i did post a photo again!

[Babs]

3 hours ago, oldlady said:

i did it!   not the best fish or photo, but i did post a photo again!

Go old lady!!

Great in both cases