Jump to content

Duncan Kiln not reaching temperature.


Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Here's photos of the relays. 

 

Yeah, pulled the data sheet and this will not work. That’s the problem with some of these specs, a bit misleading to say the least. I don’t believe you can use this in anyway after looking at this spec sheet. Not really what we would call Double pole single throw actually.

26363671-D157-4AD0-B905-B9948584F4B0.jpeg

84B330D3-F93A-43C6-AFF6-8D0960958E27.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

Yeah, pulled the data sheet and this will not work. That’s the problem with some of these specs, a bit misleading to say the least. I don’t believe you can use this in anyway after looking at this spec sheet. Not really what we would call Double pole single throw actually.

26363671-D157-4AD0-B905-B9948584F4B0.jpeg

84B330D3-F93A-43C6-AFF6-8D0960958E27.jpeg

Bummer... 

 

Could you recommend one from this website if you have the time? I'm out my depth. 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/0376947/

 

Cheers 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, JohnS said:

Could you recommend one from this website if you have the time? I'm out my depth. 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/2355510/
 

Best for sure I could find. A bit different mount and truly double pole double throw and most common in kilns these days more so than your old one . Only one I spotted that give you two form A or two form C contacts. Like the relay you removed you will not use two connections. 

0181D15F-88CB-4692-AC80-82CCE9A848F4.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

@JohnSadd a clear picture of the bottom of you old relay and will show you the numbers that correspond exactly on this relay.

Added on the previous page cheers, I've ordered the one you suggested thanks, fingers crossed for this one! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that's a bummer. They totally didn't list that relay correctly on their web site. I just went back to double check and it's shown as being DPST, which would work if that's what it really was. Their specs show it as being something totally different, though. Sorry about that, I trusted their listing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

Well that's a bummer. They totally didn't list that relay correctly on their web site. I just went back to double check and it's shown as being DPST, which would work if that's what it really was. Their specs show it as being something totally different, though. Sorry about that, I trusted their listing.

No worries man, sure you didn't do it on purpose! I'll see if they'll take a return. No drama. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

Added on the previous page cheers,

Here you go, maybe someone will double check me. I did change the switched with common so when non powered the empty  connectors will have no power on them so form C wired as Form A.

 

70409BC3-FA17-460D-8FFD-A3ECF1C0BA2B.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@JohnS  you know looking at your very first Relay picture in the machine, it’s missing wires so if this is all that is on that relay then someone jumped this out long ago with the tandem wire connectors. So if in one of the very first pictures you posted contains all the wires that was hooked to it, it was doing exactly nothing and cannot be the problem. For this relay to work it has to have at least six separate things connected to it. Worth double checking. If the diagram I posted fits your kiln, then this relay was jumped out and the infinite switch was the primary thing controlling your elements on top. If all true, the infinite switch is likely bad.

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

@JohnS  you know looking at your very first Relay picture in the machine, it’s missing wires so if this is all that is on that relay then someone jumped this out long ago with the tandem wire connectors. So if in one of the very first pictures you posted contains all the wires that was hooked to it, it was doing exactly nothing and cannot be the problem. For this relay to work it has to have at least six separate things connected to it. Worth double checking. If the diagram I posted fits your kiln, then this relay was jumped out and the infinite switch was the primary thing controlling your elements on top. If all true, the infinite switch is likely bad.

Yeah there are 6 things that go into it. You just can't see the connection to the elements. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 6/18/2021 at 9:19 PM, Bill Kielb said:

Here you go, maybe someone will double check me. I did change the switched with common so when non powered the empty  connectors will have no power on them so form C wired as Form A.

 

70409BC3-FA17-460D-8FFD-A3ECF1C0BA2B.jpeg

Hi, so, new relay arrived today, wired it up as in this diagram and bang! Big spark and power cut. Tried it matching the previous layout (not using the top two pins rather than the ones marked with an x) and exactly the same. 

 

I noticed that on this relay the numbers are different again from the original and rather than having A/B 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9

It has:

 

0/1   2/4/3  6/8/7 and a solid arrow pointing from 2 - 4 and a dotted arrow from 3 - 4 and same on the bottom row. 

 

Any ideas? Pictures attached of new relay

DSC_0145_compress43.jpg

Edited by JohnS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

Any ideas? Pictures attached of new relay

So I think my drawing is correct, put both relays side by side numbers in the same direction and take a nice picture and post to confirm. Also did you number the wires before you removed them?

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bill Kielb said:

So I think my drawing is correct, put both relays side by side numbers in the same direction and take a nice picture to confirm. Also did you number the wires before you removed them?

I just had it working, put the case on fully and it blew again, think I had a loose wire, opened the case and the damn tandem clip has snapped on one of them! I'll try and order a new one... 

Any idea of the name and size of these things? So frustrating... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what may be happening is that the case isn't deep enough for that relay. Your old relay had the terminals on the end, correct? See if the wires/terminals are coming into contact with something on the kiln body when you close it up. If that's the problem, then I would try an insulated right angle terminal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

I think what may be happening is that the case isn't deep enough for that relay. Your old relay had the terminals on the end, correct? See if the wires/terminals are coming into contact with something on the kiln body when you close it up. If that's the problem, then I would try an insulated right angle terminal

Yeah, could very well be that. It's a stretch to get everything clipped in but I think I can just move it down slightly and glue it in place rather than use the bolt holes from before. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JohnS said:

Any idea of the name and size of these things? So frustrating... 

@JohnS

yeah I hate those things remove them when I can and crimp both wires in an insulated spade terminal instead shown below. If you don’t have crimpers or experience though, then terminal splitters work. Two of those wires power a very small load  timing relay so combining into one spade should be no issue load wise.

Some what ya call it’s I have heard:

  • Spade terminal splitters
  • Piggy back spade terminals
  • Double terminal adapter

 

 

8F93FBEE-F8E7-47F4-AC4B-2C74F6A92E11.jpeg

A594F77B-1107-4080-B050-85524D361DEC.jpeg

A4857153-D70C-4F44-8396-28312538DD21.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

Yeah, could very well be that. It's a stretch to get everything clipped in but I think I can just move it down slightly and glue it in place rather than use the bolt holes from before. 

I don’t like glue especially in a heated environment. Best drill a new hole or two. Your picture looks like plenty of space, but with the splitters definitely are a pain.  Suggestion: don’t forget to renumber your wires  when you are sure

Edited by Bill Kielb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to say guys that I got it working last night so thanks very much for all your help, very greatly appreciated. It underfired by a fair amount but I'll work on figuring that out over the next few days as I'm sure that's easier to figure out than what we've just done! 

 

Thanks again. 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.