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Talc shortage? New Talc - Cim Talc


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Has anyone else heard that the talc mines are closing and that getting talc will be a problem in the not so distant future? Talc is the main ingredient in my slip recipe, so I'm kind of freaking out. Just stocked up on several bags which will hold me over for awhile. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about this? 

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This has been discussed before. The main supplier of talc in the US is (was) AM-TAL, in Texas. For better or worse, Daltile, the big wall and floor tile maker uses so much talc in their production that it made business sense for them to just buy the whole mine a few years ago. Recently, they made another business decision to end outside distribution of the talc as of this month, only producing for internal use now. Yup, there is going to be some disruption. There are some other smaller talc mines, but it will be awhile for the market and distribution to settle.

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  • 3 months later...

Stopped at a clay supplier on the way home from points north yesterday, got fifty pound bags o' C-98 and Gerstley Borate - that much talc may be all I ever need, howevah, I hope to go through all that GB... 

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Just a heads up to anyone who might substitute Sierralite talc for Amtalc-C98, there is a significant difference in chemistries between the two talcs. A direct 1:1 substitute likely won't work unless it's just a very tiny amount of talc being used. Main differences are in the silica and alumina levels.

1087802462_ScreenShot2021-08-24at10_09_17PM.png.03431f5fe5792faaca34a40e5191b65a.png

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Just a sorta-humorous note along these lines... We had been talking about this, and though the college studio where I am a studio monkey was closed because of the pandemic, I suggested to the professor that she should order some to get us through the however long the shortage might be. We reopened yesterday for modified in-person studio work, and there on a cart were 4 bags of it, enough to last us the rest of millenium.

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Some years back I spoke to John Pacinni at a wood fire opening show. He was the clay/materials guy for Laguna Clay Co. (now retired) and he said many mines where being bought out either for single use companies or even just to end competitive natures of the business. Net effect was many materials where getting revmoved from the market wreaking havac in the smaller ceramic world (our use). Texas Talc is just the latest.

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  • 3 months later...
1 minute ago, Mark C. said:

Cim Talc will be a replacement for texas talc-see my pots about that. They have several types and the composition is close Juan atLaguna told me a few days ago.

Hi Mark, do you have the chem analysis for the new CimTalcs? (I couldn't find it when I did a search)

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Hansen posted this on CIMTUFF 9100

CimTuff 9115 TDS (digitalfire.com)

Cimbar has several talc "products" - cimtuff is one of ...many

Axner has this listing:
Talc - Cimtalc (sold per lb.) (axner.com)

Looks like there are three grades, where the numeral corresponds to the median particle size in microns.

New Mexico Clay has posted this:
Talc Magnesium Silicate (nmclay.com)

Cimbar  "CIMTALC Talc", posted by Palmerholland (updated 4-AUG-21):
Your Technology Resource (palmerholland.com)

This tds ^ includes three paragraphs on its use in ceramics, btw, which may reflect the vendor's view ...Cimbar, what say you?

Edited by Hulk
it's a hit!
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19 hours ago, Min said:

Hi Mark, do you have the chem analysis for the new CimTalcs? (I couldn't find it when I did a search)

No I do not and I did ask about it. I'm in the process of ordering a ton of dry glaze along with a sample of that glaze made with CimTalc -I'll try again for the breakdown info next time i speack to Juan at Laguna (hes the clay and glaze tester )

The 1st link above has some info in it

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I emailed Rose at Laguna asking about it, she passed my question onto tech so hopefully we'll get confirmation from them that it's the same (or close to) what @Hulk linked from Digitalfire.

Depending on how much talc is in the recipe it might need some tweaking of silica and calcium.

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I heard back from Laguna about the Cim Talc they are now carrying. The chart below is what I was sent, apart from a minuscule bit of alumina and slightly less LOI it's the same as what @Hulk linked to above in his last link. I noticed the data from the chart Laguna sent is from 2016.

1969638502_ScreenShot2021-12-07at10_15_20AM.png.a6ed39892c27c808b07691abc54ffe83.png

I did a side by side comparison of Amtalc-C98 (aka amtalc, amtal and the old pioneer talc). I entered Cim Talc from the Laguna info. The Cim Talc does have more SiO2 which I would  rebalance in recipes having more than a small amount of talc in them.

1453592141_ScreenShot2021-12-07at9_55_46AM.png.11eaf3bdd4fe68ef85f22c41a87282f9.png

I picked a random fairly high talc recipe and ran it with both Amtalc-C98 and Cim Talc, shows the silica difference and very minuscule differences in calcium, magnesium and alumina. I would reduce the silica in the Cim Talc recipe to equal the Amtalc formula. The calcium and alumina differences are more than likely insignificant given the analysis from Laguna had both the calcium and alumina oxides at <3 and <1 respectively.

920647072_ScreenShot2021-12-07at10_01_21AM.png.2fc92c28c105699b3f5c0be746692223.png

I'll pin this thread as I'm sure the "new" talc topic will come up again.

 

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  • Min changed the title to Talc shortage? New Talc - Cim Talc
  • Min pinned this topic

Cimbar's material data sheet dated 4-AUG-21 includes these paragraphs, which may reflect their "new status" as talc suppliers to potters?

"Cimtalc’s are also used to produce low expansion ceramics, for example thermal shock resistant stoneware bodies. In these, it acts as a low expansion flux that reduces body expansion by converting available quartz mineral, mainly in kaolin, to silicates of magnesia. Cordierite bodies used in kiln furniture and flameware (an a[sic] host of other applications e.g. catalytic converters) employ a high percentage of Cimbar talc and extend this concept so that all free quartz is used up.

Talc by itself it is a refractory powder; yet in amounts of only 1-3% in stoneware or porcelain bodies it can drastically improve vitrification! Yet adding these same low percentages to some zero-porosity highly vitreous bodies does cause them to warp, blister or over fire. Cone 06-04 ceramic slips containing up to 60% talc can be fired to cone 6 without melting or even deforming (50:50 mixes can even go to cone 10).

Talc is a curious glaze material also. At middle temperature raw talc is refractory, its presence tends to create opaque and matte surfaces, yet if supplied in a frit it can create wonderfully transparent glossy glazes. At cone 10 it is a powerful flux but also can be used in combination with calcium carbonate to create very tactile magnesia matte glazes (the MgO forms magnesium silicate crystals on cooling to give both opacity and a matte silky surface). This being said, where transparency is needed it is generally best to source MgO from a frit (since talc loses its water of hydration quite late in the firing, after melt of most glazes has begun)."

Cimbar offers at least six different talc products, btw.

I picked up a fifty-pound sack of C-98 when passing through Sacramento earlier this year, which may cover my talc needs for quite some time, and at a very reasonable rate as well (less than 50¢/pound)

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