Attaching D-rings to Ceramic Plates

[Havely]

Hi everyone,

I am making ceramic plaques to sell. I'm trying to figure out the best way to be able to hang them. Of course, I could put holes in the plaques themselves and then hang with wire or string, but I was hoping to hang them in a way that hid the wire. Sooo....I was thinking of attaching D-rings to the back, but I'm a little nervous about whether that would hold for years to come. (Especially since these will most likely hang in children's rooms!) 

Anyone have experience gluing unglazed ceramic to metal in a similar situation? Seems like epoxy is getting suggested a lot, but I don't know if it matters whether the ceramic is glazed or not. I was also thinking that something like thin set mortar might be good...?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[liambesaw]

The problem with glue on ceramics is that both glue and ceramic expand and shrink slightly with temperature, so over time they will separate eventually.  The best option I've seen is to integrate standoffs and holes in the back of the design.  So on a wall plate a few holes in the foot ring so you can string a loop of wire through it.  I know it's a bit late now, but any way you can figure out mechanical retention would be best, instead of relying on chemical retention.

That said, plenty of adhesives out there that will last years.  If it were my personal project and it was too late for mechanical retention, I would use adhesive silicone (aquarium silicone) because it allows for thermal expansion since it is flexible, but has very strong adhesion to glass and ceramic.

 

[Havely]

Thanks so much Liam! It isn't too late for mechanical.  I was just thinking that the standoffs in the back would push it too far away from the wall. (I had planned on digging out a bit of the clay so that the D-rings could sit recessed.) Hmm. Maybe I could still dig a bit out so that the standoffs don't sit up too high? I could always just have a couple of holes near the top of the plaque and hang a string through those, but I'm thinking most people wouldn't want the string visible above the plaque. What do you think?

 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

11 minutes ago, Havely said:

I was just thinking that the standoffs in the back would push it too far away from the wall. (I had planned on digging out a bit of the clay so that the D-rings could sit recessed.) Hmm. Maybe I could still dig a bit out so that the standoffs don't sit up too high? I could always just have a couple of holes near the top of the plaque and hang a string through those, but I'm thinking most people wouldn't want the string visible above the plaque. What do you think?

my approach:

attach four small blocks of clay to the back of the plaque say about 2 cm square and 1 cm thick -- think of these as four feet to hold the plaque off of a horizontal shelf.  These blocks have two holes that cross each other so that after the firing a hanging wire or cord can be threaded through several holes to hang the plaque;  add the blocks while the plaque is still moist. make sure that when glazing the plaque that these "hanging holes" are free of glaze.  another approach is to design the plaque such that the mounting device (cable, hook, whatever) is appears to be part of the object design instead of an afterthought attachment. 
 

[Havely]

Thanks Min and Magnolia Mud---
I love the idea of cutting that groove, but unfortunately, I've already made a plaster casting of the plaque and I don't think the plaques will be thick enough. So, I think I'm going to go the route of adding standoffs like you all suggested.  My only remaining question is this: I have no idea if my clay will slump in the firing! How can I be aware of this in advance? If I let my plaques get bone dry before firing, will that help them stay flat?

[Bill Kielb]

3 hours ago, Havely said:

Anyone have experience gluing unglazed ceramic to metal in a similar situation? Seems like epoxy is getting suggested a lot, but I don't know if it matters whether the ceramic is glazed or not. I was also thinking that something like thin set mortar might be good...?

 

Good epoxy is very good for chemical bonding  and adhere to ceramic extremely well, glazed or unglazed. Most prosumer epoxies are very capable as epoxy is the one adhesive that has pretty consistent mechanical properties including enough flexibility to move with the materials they are designed for. Having said that industry uses some really capable epoxies that last for an extremely long time and can be ordered online.

[Havely]

Bill, is there a particular epoxy that you would recommend?

 

[Bill Kielb]

10 minutes ago, Havely said:

I love the idea of cutting that groove, but unfortunately, I've already made a plaster casting of the plaque and I don't think the plaques will be thick enough. So, I think I'm going to go the route of adding standoffs like you all suggested.

So I will give you two. First one is simply two dowels to make a keyhole impression in the back of the plaque and undercutting the top of the keyhole with a smooth tool or just take a screw with the right head  size push in to the clay and upward a bit to have a nice undercut. The next is to just embed a small loop of element wire  on either side of the plaque about 2/3 up from the bottom which is where the end user mounts their hanger wire.

The advantage of method two is its easy for the user to hang level as opposed to keyhole slots which are tough to hang and get level for most. We always add an adhesive rubber bumper to the bottom of things. It keeps the walls from being scratched up.

[Bill Kielb]

19 minutes ago, Havely said:

Bill, is there a particular epoxy that you would recommend?

 

Any prosumer is fine, longer cure is higher strength, but even the five minute has really high sheer strength and decent flexibility so I have not seen any bad true epoxy. Very very thorough mixing is ALWAYS the key for most. And for special use, food safe, elevated temperature, etc...., UV cure for that extra special item, it exists online and can be ordered.

[Havely]

Bill, I like the element wire solution. But my potter's guild fires to Cone 6 exclusively and  my clay supply store said that they don't carry wire that will be okay at that temp. Is there wire out there that is okay for Cone 6 firing?

 

[Bill Kielb]

4 minutes ago, Havely said:

Bill, I like the element wire solution. But my potter's guild fires to Cone 6 exclusively and  my clay supply store said that they don't carry wire that will be okay at that temp. Is there wire out there that is okay for Cone 6 firing?

 

I Always give away old elements that have been removed, but, yes this wire is absolutely available. Anything Kanthal high temp should easily be rated cone six or greater. The tail on the elephant is one such given to me from an artist I used to leave element ends for. She even glazed it, very sturdy little loop.

[neilestrick]

Make the foot ring tall enough to put a couple of holes in it through which you can run a wire for hanging. It doesn't take much. This has been my go-to method for 25 years. I do this with every platter I make. If a customer opts not to hang it, the holes won't affect the function of the platter.

[Mark C.]

I make ceramic fish some have a curve to them others are flat-since your plaques sound flat they are like my flat fish.

In the curfed fish i add a  piece of wet clay when the fish clay is also wet and poke a small hole in it. Later after the cone 10 fire I string stainless wire so its good outside and inside.

On the flat fish I pinch a small bunch of clay that is flat on one side and prudes slightly and put a small hole thru it. I use JB weld epoxy to glue these to the fish backs and later thread the holes with stainless wire. The epoxy grips clay way better than wire (or D rings) the only drawback is this epoxy can let go when really hot in sun. I think west systems two part epoxy for marine use is another option-its spendy but I use it on m,y boats. another option than I have here but is untested is marine JB weld which you can order online at amazon. Hardwares stores carry regular JB in regular (a bit runny) or fast set  a bit thicker.As I said heat can release it but indoor use would work well. I did test this epoxy on a glase to clay fired pieces and it tore the glaze off the pot and the bond held.

I world real world test your product before selling it to consumers first.

The other suggestion is make a new mold that has the hole for wire in the plaque or make an add on piece-it sounds like the hanging is not thought out yet . All you need is small hole for a wire (hangs flat on wall)

[oldlady]

havely, are you in the guild in the old mill in hampden?   you are only a short distance from the beautiful baltimore clayworks studios on smith street.   there are several sculptors there who are generous with their advice.  could you just go visit their studios now that maryland is open?

if long life means made in 1976, i have a mirror made by barbara lane and hanging on the old kind of aluminum pop top beverage can tab.  the kind that totally tore off and left almost a teardrop shaped hole.   she used epoxy and covered the back with felt because of the glass edge of the mirror.   except for some loss of the silver backing on the mirror section, it is like new.   no glaze on the back, simply wiped rutile on the front with about a teaspoonful of glaze on highlights.   still love it.

one of the simplest ways to hang clay is to dig out of the back a pair of holes that do not go all the way through but allow the head of a nail to fit inside the dug out slot.  two holes so the plaque can be leveled.   deciding where to place a single support assumes you can determine exactly where to put it so it will hang straight.  roofing nails have a large head if it not too heavy a plaque.