Luka Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 Hi guys. I`ve purchased some Underglaze powder pigments. In description is written that I can mix it with water to use like an underglaze. I mixed it with water (5g powder to 10ml water; 5g -15 ml; 5g - 20ml) and draw to bisque pots. After it dries, color is easily removable with friction. I mean, if i touch paint, it comes off. Then I mixed 5g powder to 5g clay and 20 ml water. Difference was clear. Color was well balanced and it was not easily removable. So basically, in first method, I`m mixing water and powder, in second method Slip and powder. I wonder, is any of this method wrong or right? I can`t test them with firing right away so any basic info would help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 From your description it sounds like your underglaze powder is a ceramic stain alone. If that's the case then it might be quite refractory with just adding clay, I'ld test it with about equal parts of your underglaze powder (stain?) plus clay plus frit. I don't know what frits you have available to you in Georgia, if you can get Gerstley Borate you could try that also. Blues and greens probably will need less stain than most other colours. Other option would be to mix it with a commercial underglaze medium like this if something similar is available to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 min, clicking on Like this did not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Min said: From your description it sounds like your underglaze powder is a ceramic stain alone. If that's the case then it might be quite refractory with just adding clay, I'ld test it with about equal parts of your underglaze powder (stain?) plus clay plus frit. I don't know what frits you have available to you in Georgia, if you can get Gerstley Borate you could try that also. Blues and greens probably will need less stain than most other colours. Other option would be to mix it with a commercial underglaze medium like this if something similar is available to you. Sad party is, I can`t get any frit or necessary chemicals here. So as I understood, I should mix powder+clay+gerstley borate+water? Here I can show you image and maybe this will help you to guess if it`s stain or not. Thank you Min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Min said: From your description it sounds like your underglaze powder is a ceramic stain alone. If that's the case then it might be quite refractory with just adding clay, I'ld test it with about equal parts of your underglaze powder (stain?) plus clay plus frit. I don't know what frits you have available to you in Georgia, if you can get Gerstley Borate you could try that also. Blues and greens probably will need less stain than most other colours. Other option would be to mix it with a commercial underglaze medium like this if something similar is available to you. And 1 more question. as long as, transparent glaze has frit in it, would it be ok to mix this powder with transparent glaze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 I did a search for Refsan underglaze and by looking at this link the only info it gives is "900-1200 °C derece arasında kullanılmaktadır.900-1200 °C derece arasında kullanılmaktadır.Sır içine ve sıraltı olarak kullanılabilir." which when I used Google translator comes out as "It is used between 900-1200 ° C. Can be used in glaze and underglaze." Given that it's dusty when used straight and doesn't stick to the pot plus the info in both your product image plus the one linked to in this post saying it can be mixed with transparent glazes makes me think that there is something missing in translation about using just with water as an underglaze. Also found this link that says "...should be mixed with water and other dry materials about the necessary amount." Can you get gerstley borate? Or ulexite? (which I believe is mined in Turkey so might be more available to you) If you can get ulexite I'ld experiment with 1/2 as much as the gerstley borate. Transparent glaze doesn't need to have a frit in it to add stain to it. You can also add stains (if thats what this is) to an opaque glaze. I really would suggest trying some test pieces before committing your work to these experiments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Min said: I did a search for Refsan underglaze and by looking at this link the only info it gives is "900-1200 °C derece arasında kullanılmaktadır.900-1200 °C derece arasında kullanılmaktadır.Sır içine ve sıraltı olarak kullanılabilir." which when I used Google translator comes out as "It is used between 900-1200 ° C. Can be used in glaze and underglaze." Given that it's dusty when used straight and doesn't stick to the pot plus the info in both your product image plus the one linked to in this post saying it can be mixed with transparent glazes makes me think that there is something missing in translation about using just with water as an underglaze. Also found this link that says "...should be mixed with water and other dry materials about the necessary amount." Can you get gerstley borate? Or ulexite? (which I believe is mined in Turkey so might be more available to you) If you can get ulexite I'ld experiment with 1/2 as much as the gerstley borate. Transparent glaze doesn't need to have a frit in it to add stain to it. You can also add stains (if thats what this is) to an opaque glaze. I really would suggest trying some test pieces before committing your work to these experiments! Yah, there is no much info and dealer doesn`t care. I tested today with water + more clay powder and it worked well, but i`ll try underglaze (which you linked) and borate also. Main thing is, I don`t want too thick or uneven underglaze/color which may cause problem to glaze. I`m very thankful for your time and energy. Gonna test for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 I definitely think this a pigment. It says "underglaze powder pigments", which I take to mean it is the pigment to be used in underglaze, not that it is an underglaze. The language and grammar leaves it open to interpretation. As it works better with slip than with water, it must be a pigment, or stain. Something to add colour to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chilly said: I definitely think this a pigment. It says "underglaze powder pigments", which I take to mean it is the pigment to be used in underglaze, not that it is an underglaze. The language and grammar leaves it open to interpretation. As it works better with slip than with water, it must be a pigment, or stain. Something to add colour to something else. I understand that. It`s just strange that dealer told me and also, it`s written in description that "you can mix it with water", which is not useable. I mixed it with slip and it works well, but I will try it with underglaze also. I`m pretty new in this work and don`t know what`s basic difference between pigment, stain, wash, underglaze, engobe and all. Now I know how and when to use Pigment thanks to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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