neilestrick Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: I have seen folks just move the line to the load screws and double up or install jumpers keeping the sitter as a terminal block. An ok idea when neatly done. Providing something else will turn off the kiln faithfully.. That would definitely work. I hadn't though of jumpers, so you don't have to rely on the sitter contact plate mechanism at all. I've always just pulled the sitter out completely and put in a small terminal block, so that's what was in my head. Once you remove the sitter tube there's a lot more space in there to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronfire Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 I removed the sitter tube and installed the thermocouple in place and the protection tube over top. I fit in well with the protection tube. I then moved the power input from one side of the sitter contact plate to the other side. All the switches and wiring from original stay in place. If I have to I can replace the sitter and rewire in about 10 min and be back to the stock setup. The wall controller stays cool and does not get to a dangerous temperature, I did add a fan to mine to cool it even further but does not require it to operate. The cooler you keep electronics the better it is on them. I built mine with a Genesis controller, contactor and solid state relay. I also have a separate power system for a vent fan that gets controller by the controller. The vent fan uses the cord from a float switch so it just plugs into the wall and the vent fan pugs into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Ok, so I contacted artisan, they make the 2 in 1 timer. They have it but it is 190.00... so my thought is to go with upgrading to the Olympic electro sitter, which goes in place of the kiln sitter .. but that would be only if the timer isn’t needed ... so basically the electrositter bypasses all the original controls ..relay etc? if I’m going to do this i need to make sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Did you do the timer relay check above to confirm it is bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Not yet .. do I leave the wires connected to the timer and just connect the 2 and 3 with a piece of 10g wire ? Or do I remove the wires first and connect them together ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Either will be fine, removal and temporarily taping a jumper is probably easiest. This just drives the mechanical relay, so # 10 wire not needed just for the test. Tape everything neatly, careful of live power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 There’s really not much more to check . The relay was replaced and the infinite switch tested good. And the kiln turned on when I moved the wires to the on position of the relay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 I’ll try to test later when I get home ... so leave wires on timer and just jump them while attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Jamesmdx1 said: so my thought is to go with upgrading to the Olympic electro sitter, which goes in place of the kiln sitter .. but that would be only if the timer isn’t needed ... so basically the electrositter bypasses all the original controls ..relay etc? The Electrositter can bypass all the controls if you wire it up that way. You'll have to connect the elements directly to the back of the Electrositter, which means either splicing or replacing existing wires. Replacing would be preferable to splicing, but if you've got crimp connectors on the elements that won't be an easy option. The way they say to do it- just moving the wires from the old manual sitter to the new Electrositter- assumes that all the switches and relays in the old system are functional, because you set the kiln on high and the digital controller cycles the whole kiln on and off to control rate of climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Neil, Everything I functional except for the 2 in 1 timer ... how would you bypass that ? can i send you some pics of the inside of my kiln controls? If you send me your email I can send them to you ...I can’t post them here because they are larger than the limit. My email is jamesmdx1@aol.com thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 Bill I jumped the 2 and 3 terminals on the timer and the kiln fired up... it didnt cycle it just stayed on . so safe to say its the 2 in 1 timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 Cool, now to decide, replace, retrofit or rewire. I still would call Paragon and ask if they can set you up with the infinite switch solution. Cheap, dependable, proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Neil did you have a chance to look at the pics I sent you ? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Jamesmdx1 said: Neil did you have a chance to look at the pics I sent you ? thanks Finally got to them. Sorry for the delay. I would hook up the Electrositter (ES) and completely bypass all the switches and relays so you don't have to worry about them frying out in the future. So you'll just hook the power cord into the bottom two terminals on the ES just like they are on the old sitter. The top two terminals on the ES will each get one wire from each element set, so two wires on each terminal. Piece of cake. The wires coming off the elements are probably not long enough and don't have the correct ring terminals on the ends, so you can splice them with the wires that come off the old sitter and have the ring terminals. Everything else can stay in there, but remove any wires that are no longer connected at one end so they're not loose in there, or of you have no intention of ever going back to the manual setup just gut the box. If you have the money, the Genesis controller is worth the extra cost. Otherwise get the V6-CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2020 ok thank you looks pretty simple, so the controller controls the temp climb and doesnt need any relays .. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted November 19, 2020 Report Share Posted November 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jamesmdx1 said: ok thank you looks pretty simple, so the controller controls the temp climb and doesnt need any relays .. .. The controller has its own big relay in the box. It'll cycle the power on and off to control the temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesmdx1 Posted November 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2020 If I remember correctly I think for the first 2 hours the timer cycled every 60 sec and I think only the bottom 4 element came on and then after the 2 hours all 8 were on high .. would this do anything like that .. not sure since all the elements would be connected together so I would think they would all come on at the same time thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 Yes it will act like a normal single zone kiln and the controller will turn the elements on to maintain a nice even heating rate. I am not aware of anyone that still designs with the whacky two hour timer method. An automated control would be a huge improvement from the way this kiln was originally designed. My guess is if I offered to fix your car but you will have manual brakes and no power steering when I was done, you would decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronfire Posted November 20, 2020 Report Share Posted November 20, 2020 Sure glad I changed mine over to a controller, well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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