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Callum Donovan-Grujicich

How to Move Heavy Greenware

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Hello, I am planning on moving and transporting a large porcelain sculpture. The sculpture is over one metre tall, but it will be cut in two to fit in the kiln. I can move the sculpture around on a cart, but I need to move it up and down stairs, into a car, and into a top-loading kiln. The sculpture is quite delicate, as the clay is only about two centimetres thick. What would be the best method for moving such a heavy and delicate piece of work?

Thanks for your consideration,

Callum

Edited by Callum Donovan-Grujicich

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Possibly on a "rigid box/tray filled with the those packing"peanuts" and possibly bubble wrapped first.

Cut before it leaves your studio. Check out a product called spooze in case.. folk add paper to it. Make sure all totally dry before kilnin if have to mend anything.

Can make a crate within a crate like some folk mail stuff.

Friuends mailed a totally iced 4 tier weddfing cake from auys to uk using box within a box and packing peanuts in both..

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39 minutes ago, Babs said:

Possibly on a "rigid box/tray filled with the those packing"peanuts" and possibly bubble wrapped first.

Cut before it leaves your studio. Check out a product called spooze in case.. folk add paper to it. Make sure all totally dry before kilnin if have to mend anything.

Can make a crate within a crate like some folk mail stuff.

Friuends mailed a totally iced 4 tier weddfing cake from auys to uk using box within a box and packing peanuts in both..

Yes, I agree with this method of transporting the sculpture. However, I do not know how to actually lift the sculpture properly and safely.

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What's it sitting on right now? Can you put it on a pallet with a pole running through the pallet on either side to lift with. Have help to carry it like a litter down the stairs.  Even getting a sling under it would help for when you lower it into the kiln, sling can be left in the kiln to burn off. 

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Not being a smart ass but next time......process designed right to installation...

Not much help there eh?

Is it still leather hard?

Halved wrapped in lots andlots of bubblewrap so when that section is lifted by 2 or 3 folk the pressure points of contact are spread couldx work.

Pics would help replies.

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21 hours ago, Callum Donovan-Grujicich said:

how do I actually lift such a heavy object

I was thinking the same as Min - place it on a pallet (could be just a piece of plywood) so the weight is evenly distributed, and you're not applying pressure to just a couple of hand-sized areas when you lift.

Might be helpful if you give us an idea of what "heavy" means...  For some, that might be 25 pounds - for others, 40 or 50.

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54 minutes ago, Rockhopper said:

I was thinking the same as Min - place it on a pallet (could be just a piece of plywood) so the weight is evenly distributed, and you're not applying pressure to just a couple of hand-sized areas when you lift.

Might be helpful if you give us an idea of what "heavy" means...  For some, that might be 25 pounds - for others, 40 or 50.

I don’t really know how heavy it is, but I’m guessing about 100 pounds per half of the sculpture. And I understand now that it should be carried on a special pallet like you said, but how would I place it in a top-loading kiln without accidentally dropping it or putting the pallet in the kiln with it?

Edited by Callum Donovan-Grujicich

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Sarcasm...

"Grab it from just below that wide section, it's a perfect place for the straps!"

A cone, for instance, will have to be lifted from the bottom.

A "T" can be lifted from under the -.

Maybe there are 2cm long coils wrapped around the outside.

Maybe it is square.

Maybe it is round.

"Sculpture" is a wee bit vague!

I been texting pics to the Sorceress to resize em, I'll give you my number if you need someone to text them pics to!

Sorce

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1 hour ago, Sorcery said:

Sarcasm...

"Grab it from just below that wide section, it's a perfect place for the straps!"

A cone, for instance, will have to be lifted from the bottom.

A "T" can be lifted from under the -.

Maybe there are 2cm long coils wrapped around the outside.

Maybe it is square.

Maybe it is round.

"Sculpture" is a wee bit vague!

I been texting pics to the Sorceress to resize em, I'll give you my number if you need someone to text them pics to!

Sorce

 

It’s a large hollow cylinder with a face on one end and an internal support structure made of several smaller hollow cylinders extending to the base of the larger cylinder. The cylinder has a diameter of 58cm and a height of about 50cm. The walls are quite thin (about 2cm thick). Sorry about being vague.

Edited by Callum Donovan-Grujicich

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A sketch...no one here interested in copying your sculpture.

Top loading kiln. This gets betterer and betterer.

Need a gantry or block and tackle with burnable sling for sure...check out how folk with top hat raku kilns winch up the kiln walls to expose the pots.. that in reverse sorta.

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9 hours ago, Callum Donovan-Grujicich said:

internal support structure

Nothing Horizontal huh?

If you must rig the entire thing, you may have to slipknot the bottom, and half hitch the top. The more half hitches, the more pressure will be distributed.

You may have to use pantyhose or special rope, but this should work.

It will want to lean a little, but it should still go in, and it's easy to upright it!

Best!

Sorce

Capture+_2020-05-21-07-34-26~2.png

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Almost anytime, that myself or my students have made something large, I had them build it on a kiln shelf, or something else, that can just go in the kiln with it. 

That gave us something strong to grab on to, while we were moving them. 

As others have stated, showing us some reference photos, would allow everyone here to better help  with the problem. 

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Thank you all for your suggestions. However, the problem is that the sculpture is too heavy to lift by hand. What type of system or machinery could I use to lift it? I am now talking about the weight of the sculpture, because I don’t know how to lift it. I don’t think I can use a pulley system, because I will be firing the sculpture in a public gallery.

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Heres  the real deal on firing large sculpure 

You plan on the firing 1st before making any clay item-you figure out all the steps 1st

You figure out the firing- the kiln shelf system-and build it on a base that can be fired and a pallet to move it

Second you then figure out if it will fit on a car in car kiln or do you need to make a fiber kiln around then extra large object. Meaning I have seen more than one fiber top hat kiln made that fits over said large object to fire it. If its an electric kiln you can take all the firing rings off and then stack them over said large object to fire after seting it on floor.

the main idea is all this need to be thought out 1st noit after the fact. 

since it sounds like you did the opposite then you will have to reverse engineer all the steps.

100 lbs is not to heavy for two large guys to lift-hands are more easy on greenware than ropes or slings

This learning curve will be brutal-just the nature of the beast-and it sounds like a beast-how about a photo so we can better reverse engineer what you are trying to move.

Right now its pure guesswork

goggle skyhook its a dream hook that moves anywhere still in the draam state of R&D

 

 

Edited by Mark C.

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3 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Heres  the real deal on firing large sculpure 

You plan on the firing 1st before making any clay item-you figure out all the steps 1st

You figure out the firing- the kiln shelf system-and build it on a base that can be fired and a pallet to move it

Second you then figure out if it will fit on a car in car kiln or do you need to make a fiber kiln around then extra large object. Meaning I have seen more than one fiber top hat kiln made that fits over said large object to fire it. If its an electric kiln you can take all the firing rings off and then stack them over said large object to fire after seting it on floor.

the main idea is all this need to be thought out 1st noit after the fact. 

since it sound like you did the opposite then you will have to reverse engineer all the steps.

100 lbs is not to heavy for two large guys to lift-hands are more easy on greenware  than ropes or slings

This learning curve will be brutal-just the nature of the beast-and it sounds like a beast-how about a photo so we can better reverse engineer what you are trying to move.

Right now its pure guesswork

goggle skyhook its a dream hoog that moves anywhere still in the draam state of R&D

 

 

Okay, I have something planned, but I would like some input or tips. My sculpture is on a strong but relatively thin particle board, and I am planning on drilling holes in each of the four corners of the board and tying ropes through the holes. The sculpture will then be carefully moved to a dolly and brought to the kiln. I will rent an engine hoist and attach the hook to the hoist. I will then hoist the sculpture up and lower it into the kiln. The ropes will be removed and the particle board will burn off in the kiln. Once the sculpture has been fired, it will be strong, so I will wrap it with straps and lift it down to the dolly using the engine hoist.

Is this process feasible?

Thank you for all of your support,

Callum

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1 metre x ?

Not that big at all!

In 2 pieces?

Doable.

Next time......

Follow the design process through tyo end before starting.

I would be placing a board on top of sculpture and applying a bit of pressure.

i.e. tie it to lower board for the lifting and moving process providing bottom board is rigid.

Get the thing a short way off the floor and do above. 

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Particle board is very weak so lifting from the corners may prove to be a bad idea-how much clay went into this piece? one box two boxes 18 boxes -that would be an eqsy way to knoiw the weight-what is the exact height and width of piece. Many engine lifts only go so high so getting it a kiln is beyond most of them height wise

how much extra  space around is the kiln? 2 inchs 8 inches?

We do noit know enough yet. saying its heavy and large is not enough info

what is the size-you may not know the weight but you can measure the diameter and height-same with the kiln-whats that size?

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52 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

Particle board is very weak so lifting from the corners may prove to be a bad idea-how much clay went into this piece? one box two boxes 18 boxes -that would be an eqsy way to knoiw the weight-what is the exact height and width of piece. Many engine lifts only go so high so getting it a kiln is beyond most of them height wise

how much extra  space around is the kiln? 2 inchs 8 inches?

We do noit know enough yet. saying its heavy and large is not enough info

what is the size-you may not know the weight but you can measure the diameter and height-same with the kiln-whats that size?

The sculpture is 58cm in diameter and, when halved, 50cm in height. I do not know how large the kiln is, but the sculpture should be able to fit with some extra space. I think 2 or 3 boxes of clay were used, so about 100 pounds.

Edited by Callum Donovan-Grujicich

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This all sounds do-able with some big guys-maybe the ropes for slowing  the drop into a kiln.

fire slower than you think by double what slow should be-that means a very very slowly-this kind of thing seems to always crack or blow up. Candle  a day or two on low an dthen very slwly bring it up-slowly

did I mention take it slow?

If you are not the firing oprerson tell them this.

 

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