Kiln shed

[Bill Kielb]

25 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

Why do you assume they haven't researched this already? They've been making and selling kilns for over 50 years, and are well aware of safety issues and liabilities.

Well, I have researched the assemblies, L&L folks are not code experts or fire rated assembly experts so they  probably do not want to over promote or assume that liability. There is a perception of this product that could lead to using it to cover a cavity in lieu of rated materials.. Since it conducts heat rather well it can elevate the risk of fire by allowing the cavity to heat faster. It’s design intent and assembly rating are as the manufacture states not necessarily the answer to kiln issues. Fireproof is not the same as fire resistant.

I actually did not realize these issues with cement board until I went to design something that mattered and had to really comply. I guess my question would be why wouldn’t one inform them. If they like the elevated risk then they can leave what they have written. Informing them seems to be the right thing to do.

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Bill Kielb said:

Well, I have researched the assemblies, L&L folks are not code experts or fire rated assembly experts so they  probably do not want to over promote or assume that liability. There is a perception of this product that could lead to using it to cover a cavity in lieu of rated materials.. Since it conducts heat rather well it can elevate the risk of fire by allowing the cavity to heat faster. It’s design intent and assembly rating are as the manufacture states not necessarily the answer to kiln issues. Fireproof is not the same as fire resistant.

I actually did not realize these issues with cement board until I went to design something that mattered and had to really comply. I guess my question would be why wouldn’t one inform them. If they like the elevated risk then they can leave what they have written. Informing them seems to be the right thing to do.

This is my last statement, as this thread has drifted enough.

Again, you're making assumptions about what they do or do not know.  You're assuming that every use of the board is to build a fire rated wall. That would fall under local building codes, which they have already mentioned should be followed. There is no code that says the wall around the kiln must be fireproof, you just need minimum clearances. I think you're equating your experience at the community center with all uses of cement board around kilns.

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

This is my last statement, as this thread has drifted enough.

Again, you're making assumptions about what they do or do not know.  You're assuming that every use of the board is to build a fire rated wall. That would fall under local building codes, which they have already mentioned should be followed. There is no code that says the wall around the kiln must be fireproof, you just need minimum clearances. I think you're equating your experience at the community center with all uses of cement board around kilns.

Yeah,

My last comment as well. Bottom line there is no harm in informing them they might want to review their verbiage. Assuming they know all risks and not informing them seems to be the least correct thing to do in my view. Informing them provides an opportunity for them to evaluate and correct if need be.

I see many posts here overtime that have the same, let’s say, potentially incorrect perception of cement board (including my own btw with regard to ceiling protection) I am not sure of the origination but I take it as something  I should  be more cautious in suggesting and they may want to as well. We obviously differ in opinion.

[Stephen]

I have my kilns (9c.f. & 7cf) 20 inches from the drywall covered wall and the walls are cool to the touch when either kiln is at cone 6. Skutt advises 18 inches. I wonder if this thread confuses when doing more is nessesary. Overkill certainly isn't a bad thing but taking it too far I worry will scare folks off of even having a kiln in a home studio.

[Mark C.]

My kiln was next to a dry wooden redwood wall with a bunch of 1/4 inch glass and assorted metal sings for 40 plus years without a hint of toasted wood.It was about 8 inches from all with the rest of stuff behind it. The tile backer board especially held off an inch or or 2 or 4 makes for no fire and a very safe surround .

The rest of the fire rated wall story is as I mentioned in my 1st post -for most garages attached to homes and that code is clear . Most put kilns in existing buildings where codes have already been meet so wrapping in tile backer just improves safety -adding to ceiling is also a good idea..Really this thing is all about common sense. I have only heard of one fire from an electric and they placed it a few inches from a plywood wall. The wood was smoking hot and caused the smoke detector to go off in a basement. That was all the fault of the owners. They got to it before flames started.-Again common sense. Kiln instructions give enough info for 99% of consumers to figure it out. 

[liambesaw]

My kiln is outdoors and will get a leaf blown on top of it once in a while.  They've never caught on fire though.  It's great to be extra cautious, but I think the 10-12 inches or whatever your manufacturer recommends is likely plenty.

[Pyewackette]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:55 PM, Mark C. said:

Hardie backer board is really all you need around kiln in basement-heres mine in an outside covered area with a metal roof as i do not have a basement. You want the kiln on same level as work gets produced so if that in basement leave the kiln there. If its on ground level than the shed makes some sense.

You can line the walls and floor and ceiling above with this backer board for fireproofing area around kiln. I hold it off the walls with some spacers so its really a cool surface behind board.I used cut pieces of copper pipe and  long screws to hold it off 4 inches off back wood wall.

 

 

So I am in the process of designing a shed for a kiln.  I was planning on putting 1" copper pipe "spacers" to hold hardie backer off the studs as interior siding.  I will use the 4x8 hardie panels for exterior siding.  So I would have a 4" gap essentially between 2 layers of hardie stuff, but no other cladding or paneling - those ARE my cladding.  Would this be OK?  its the pro version of the L&L Easy Fire 28T - it will fire to cone 10 (not that I plan on doing that a lot) and comes with the quad elements and 3" brick (which are extra on the Easy Fire 28T).  As far as I can tell glancing at the mechanical drawings, it is the same size.  

I scared the holy bejeezlebub out of myself the other day trying to check prices on studs at Home Despot and came up with $9 for 2x4x8' or $15 for a different 2x4x8'.  When I went back to check again today - because nothing assuages one's misery quite like rubbing it in as hard as you can - and suddenly they were $2.63.  Turns out I had clicked "framing studs" before but this time I just searched on 2x4s.  No idea what an 8' "framing stud" even is, those I've seen so labelled in the past were always those precut 2x4s for wall studs (so the wall is properly 8' tall for wallboard and whatnot).

Unfortunately I had not made a similar mistake regarding the price of "cheap" tin or painted metal siding.  That stuff is still horrifyingly expensive.  So hardie stufz it is.  I do hate cutting the stuff though.

I will be using the kiln vent through the roof - I have pups and a grandkid, I don't want fumes at or near ground level.

And no, I have not yet determined the actual size of the shed.  I'm trying to minimize the footprint because concrete is expensive at the moment.  Well its always expensive, when you have to pay someone else to do it.  

I'm also trying to figure out how to make a wind turbine work for me to help vent the air out of the room in addition to the kiln vent.  It will be shed roofed, eg just slanted front to back.  I think I will have to go with conventional asphalt shingles as we get a ton of hail and expense aside, metal roofing gets pounded on a regular enough basis that you will hardly see metal roofs in the area.  At least not after the first bout of hail damage.  Should I put up a hardie-backer ceiling in the same way with the standoffs?  Or is that overkill?

Would using the galvanized lumber connectors cause any problems?  Due to heat.

There will be double 2.5' to 3' doors on the front that I can just open to load and unload from an area at the same height as the floor of the shed.  Due to crazy construction material costs, I'm trying to minimize the total footprint of the building, but not so much that it would compromise operation or safety.

Years ago I saw or read about doing this with the hardie backer leaving 6" gaps at the floor and ceiling so that hot air would rise through the air gap and get sucked out by an exhaust fan.  Does that really help when you're trying to pull heat out of the shed?

[Bill Kielb]

@Pyewackette Some thoughts ……
Hardy board is common but not fire rated because it transmits the heat to the surface it’s fastened to more readily than most standards allow. I have seen folks use spacers to help with this issue, a common way to isolate the Hardy from the studs would be to just use 1” Hat channel or Z bar which is made for just such reason. Not fond of putting copper in walls these days as spacers, plus it’s tedious.

2 layers of 5/8” type X drywall, fire taped is one hour rated so there is always that to have a rated wall / Ceiling.

To remove all the heat from the shed on a 75 f day you would likely need about 400 cfm or better of exhaust which for a turbine even on a windy day would be a big ask I think.

If this has a cavity roof then ridge and soffit vents would be common or ridge and gable vents if open joist or gable and peak vent (like a one sided ridge vent) for a simple low slope “lean to” style roof.

Light color shingles or even fully adhered single ply pvc could get you sun reflectivity and a decent surface for the hail on a low slope “Lean to “ shed roof.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

@Pyewackette 

If you don’t know how big to make your proposed building, have you priced out a tin garden shed kit?

 

[Pyewackette]

I don't do kit builds, and tin is stupid expensive ATM.  I've actually never seen a tin kit, just painted metal.  But anyway.

I built an entire house mostly by myself in the 90s.  My only concerns here are ventilation and the actual footprint necessary for safe operation of the kiln.  Those are not typical construction concerns, those are kiln safety concerns. Likewise the various schemes for dealing with the heat of a kiln, like the idea of channeling hot air through an air gap.  I can build it - I just don't know if I need to go that far. 

As far as I know so far, there are no fire safety requirements for a backyard shed with a kiln in it and there is definitely no permitting or inspection required for a building that is under 200 sft.  Given that is the case, I don't see them turning around and deciding to come inspect your building just because there is a kiln in it, and I've not found anything in the town building codes specific to kilns.  People build quite large buildings - well up to the 200 sft limit at least - and work in them at all sorts of tasks with nary a peep from inspectors or the city.  So it seems I won't have building inspectors or permits to deal with and a licensed electrician will be installing the 240 and the required circuit breaker and all the wiring for the kiln.  Plus I have a contact in the area who is willing to check the setup when I get that far.  I haven't checked to see if there are any insurance requirements, we're sort of busy organizing a long distance move atm.

I will be having a roof guy install the kiln vent through the roof of the shed that isn't built yet as well.  I will admit, the gambrel roof on my house was the one thing I didn't build myself, I hired Amish (who botched the job and the roof was then the only thing that looked like an amateur did it, I was not happy - they also didn't use any flashing for any of the windows they installed in my absence, and took all the safety stuff off my equipment and lost some of the parts).  I didn't build the roof because I am afraid of heights.  It was a 2 story pole frame building and I was good with everything, including wrapping my legs around the crosspieces and hanging backwards 10+' off the ground while hammering over my head.

But do not ask me to stand up on a dead flat surface 13' above the ground on a dead calm day.  Not even if I'm 8' away from the edge.

 I can still handle guttering if its low to the ground, but being up on a ladder for anything more substantial is right out at my age.  I think I can handle decking and shingles given this is a much much smaller building, but we'll have to see.  I did manage it on the lowest portion of the roof on my house over an extension on one end of the building, first story, but I was much younger then. The roofing guy may end up with more to do than installing a range hood in the Big House and actually running the bathroom fan all the way up to the roof instead of dumping in the attic space.

I don't get up on ladders much anymore, I use my mini-scaffold. My son isn't even comfortable with the scaffolding I use LOL! (Its only 5' off the ground at its highest, but that makes me over 10' tall!)

At my age I am only ever going to have the one kiln.  I only need a building large enough to contain it without catching fire.  Kit builds lock you in to whatever is in it.  I want to only pay for the minimum slab needed for the job.  Just my outlook.

Thanks.

Pye

[Bill Kielb]

11 hours ago, Pyewackette said:

I don't do kit builds, and tin is stupid expensive ATM.  I've actually never seen a tin kit, just painted metal.  But anyway.

Here are a couple thoughts that might lead to some ideas:

Metal sheds (fire resistant construction) are let’s say 14.00 per sf to 50.00 per sf for commercial types. Your kiln likely needs 3’x3’ space including minimal spacing from the wall and absolute minimum space to load and unload. A person needs about 3x3 space to stand in and maneuver a bit.  So minimum size shed likely would be 6x3 to accommodate just the kiln, reasonable entrance and some space to enter and passage and some minor shelving or storage space..

Will a 6x 3 space work? I personally think it would be hard to work with, and the heat generated will affect the kiln control, wiring, switchgear etc… so it is doable with aggressive ventilation to keep the place cool when necessary but a 6 x 3  space seems impractical to me but likely minimal. My thought is 6 x 6 is probably a more reasonable size with room for some storage, passage and the kiln.. A premium kit with a metal floor will cost let’s say 1000.00 - 2000. 00 and really could be set on a crushed stone base instead of concrete.

Can you build it for 2000.00 Fire resistant? Studs today are on the order off 5.00 or more per stud so 4 walls or 24 feet X .75 for 16” OC and three studs  for each corner, about 30 studs. Double Top and bottom plate another let’s say 12 studs and maybe you stick frame the whole roof with studs. So let’s say 50 - 60 studs @ 5.00 or 300.00.

So maybe doable - but Fire resistant…….. maybe ……. and it will need a way to ventilate just to preserve the controls and wiring and switch gear, wood studs, etc…  If I include cavity walls, cavity ceiling, roof deck, exterior siding, roof, misc framing and blocking, entrance doors, exterior trim, paint , …….. it’s hard to imagine competing really. So cost may not be the main driver here as metal sheds are just that, I get it.

Maybe some points to ponder and resolve to your satisfaction:

• You likely want it safe and sturdy as practical because it’s yours and not necessarily because no one will inspect it.
• I suggest limiting voltage drop to 1% or less, this will give you more effective element life, most electricians use 3% rule of thumb.
• A 120 v GFI protected receptacle probably will come in handy
• A work light
• Some really decent way to cool it, even if temporary fan etc…. As the automatic control will stop working in the 100 plus degree range and lumber will dry out and catch fire in the 400 degree range. A 2000 degree kiln can easily radiates 400 degree temperatures.
• 6x3 is likely the smallest you can make this but is a bit of a challenge to use IMO
• Keeping it cool in summer months is likely a challenge and necessary for more reasons  than fumes and likely requires a powered fan so it may figure into planning your electric requirements.
• If built on grade then special attention to elevation to minimize water infiltration especially if this is a region that gets snow and of course positive drainage for when water does gets in.

[neilestrick]

3 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

6x3 is likely the smallest you can make this but is a bit of a challenge to use IMO

The kiln is 33" wide exterior, and 16 inches clearance is recommended, so the smallest the shed can be is 65 inches wide, or roughly 6x6.

The walls do no have to be fire-proof if safe clearances are maintained, however fire proofing is good for peace of mind. I would take a look at a pre-built metal shed or shed kit, as they are quick and easy to deal with. Put a cheap 400cfm inline fan in the ceiling to pull the hot air out.

[Pyewackette]

3 hours ago, neilestrick said:

The kiln is 33" wide exterior, and 16 inches clearance is recommended, so the smallest the shed can be is 65 inches wide, or roughly 6x6.

The walls do no have to be fire-proof if safe clearances are maintained, however fire proofing is good for peace of mind. I would take a look at a pre-built metal shed or shed kit, as they are quick and easy to deal with. Put a cheap 400cfm inline fan in the ceiling to pull the hot air out.

Thank you. 6x6 was what I was considering.  It seemed like it ought to be enough but I've never had a kiln.  Knowing how to drive a nail or frame a stud wall is certainly helpful here, but being SURE I'm not building something that is in and of itself inherently unsafe from the get go is really all I was looking for.

Would it be ok to mount the fan high on the wall instead of through the roof?  This building isn't going to be pole framed any more so I may have to build in a non-window window, basically a flap I can pull up to allow cooler air to be pulled in from lower on the wall and on the opposite wall from the exhaust fan.

Those metal building kits are really expensive compared to building from scratch, they really are.  It might not seem so if you've never built a moderately large structure from scratch, but they really are.  Regardless of anything else, this is going on a concrete slab because, rightly or wrongly, I think that is the safest surface for a kiln.  After that, it's a simple matter of laying the sill plate (including the weatherstripping) and framing the walls, which is super simple.  The roof may be an issue for me just because of my fear of heights but its a tiny roof.  We'll see.

I'm  mulling the Thermo-Lite shelves to counteract my shortness and age.  Potential shipping costs are terrifying me.  There doesn't seem to be anybody carrying these in the SW plus there's the whole trucking them across the country and another lift gate expense over and above the one already attached to the kiln delivery. 

I'm probably going to end up just buying conventional double doors for the front.  I was never all that great at making actual doors from scratch. (For a shed or barn, anything else would be beyond my basic construction skills).  I did a good job with my chicken coop once.  That's the only time an attempt at a simple door turned out OK for me LOL!  My dad would be disappointed in me.  But given the fact that the important stuff on the kiln is going to be facing the only entrance into the shed, I want to be sure of the weather proofing, overhang notwithstanding.

Now that the goal is actually in sight, after a 35 year long next-year-in-the-holy-land sort of state of limbo, I'm actually starting to get a little nervous.  It's been seven years - maybe eight - since I last was able to work with the clay.  Studios, where you have to basically schlep all your stuff in and out every time, or risk having it disappear from open shelves, have not been manageable for me for several years.  Being able to have stuff stored safe from ever being moved or used and then not cleaned or properly put away and sometimes even broken is a major major plus.  Doing things my way - another big plus.  Being able to work when I feel like it instead of when they've scheduled open studio hours.

Only now I'm going to have to actually start producing because all of those impediments and bothers are soon to be swept away (to be replaced, no doubt, with other bothers LOL!)

I mean I am going to have to actually DO it now (well, at least within the foreseeable future).  No more excuses!

During our last move the movers stole all my good tools - including (unbeknownst to them or me) all of my pottery tools, because they were stored in toolboxes. I'm sure they were badly disappointed when they popped those open later and found them full of funny looking rubber thingies (all my mudtools) and wires and scrapers and other weird pottery stuff.  But not half as disappointed as I was when I discovered their loss.

Replacing all that stuff is actually more stressful than all the other stuff going in to this.  I can't even remember where I got a lot of those tools - I'm pretty sure my trim tools came from some guy who handmade them (and by that I mean some famous pottery guy).  Loved those trim tools.  No idea who made them.  I don't even remember why I liked certain tools over others, or even which tools I even had in many cases.

Hopefully it'll come back when I can get my hands in the mud again.

Thanks again.

Pye

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Pyewackette said:

Would it be ok to mount the fan high on the wall instead of through the roof?

You bet. Anywhere above it.

[Magnolia Mud Research]

keeping the "shed" cool enough to prevent combustion of the "shed" is important; 
equality important is to keep the controller of the electric kiln cool enough to properly control the firing;   that temperature is likely to be lower than the safety fire protection temperature of the building.  

LT
 

[Pyewackette]

21 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

You bet. Anywhere above it.

Great, that makes it way easier for me!  Thanks again!

2 minutes ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

keeping the "shed" cool enough to prevent combustion of the "shed" is important; 
equality important is to keep the controller of the electric kiln cool enough to properly control the firing;   that temperature is likely to be lower than the safety fire protection temperature of the building.  

LT
 

Good point, and that is another issue I should probably go post about.  I saw where someone was talking about using a heat sink to help keep the controller cooler.  I've got a pretty good idea about how heatsinks work for my computer, and the controller is a computer, so it seems reasonable to think a properly installed heatsink of the correct construction would be helpful.

The rub being, "properly installed" and "correct construction" LOL!

[neilestrick]

7 minutes ago, Pyewackette said:

I've got a pretty good idea about how heatsinks work for my computer, and the controller is a computer, so it seems reasonable to think a properly installed heatsink of the correct construction would be helpful.

Kiln control boxes don't have heatsinks or cooling fans, because they're not necessary if the room is properly vented. They do have louvers in the control box for air flow, but that's it. A heatsink won't do any good if it's 140 degrees in the room.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

When I say tin garden shed, I mean one of these guys. Mine is 6x11 or 12 I think. Ventilation is not a particular issue, There’s room for a 4’ folding table next to the kiln to set pots on to load and unload, and a small wooden rack for the kiln shelves when they’re not in use. 

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Outsunny-6-ft-x-9-ft-Metal-Outdoor-Backyard-Garden-Utility-Storage-Tool-Shed-Kit-with-Spacious-Design-and-WeatherResistant-Roof-845-031GY/313811987

 

edit: yes, I realize it’s galvanized, not tin. But tin foil is shorter to say than aluminum foil, and that’s the colloquialism.

[Bill Kielb]

4 hours ago, Pyewackette said:

Would it be ok to mount the fan high on the wall instead of through the roof?  This building isn't going to be pole framed any more so I may have to build in a non-window window, basically a flap I can pull up to allow cooler air to be pulled in from lower on the wall and on the opposite wall from the exhaust fan.

It is fairly common to use a louvered opening for outside air. They are generally water and storm resistant as well as screened for critters and are pretty economical. You may want to contemplate using one instead of a flap of some sort. If your gable is unvented, then using the louver can serve two purposes. They also make through wall fans louvered in the same way. Just a thought.

[Pyewackette]

59 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said:

When I say tin garden shed, I mean one of these guys. Mine is 6x11 or 12 I think. Ventilation is not a particular issue, There’s room for a 4’ folding table next to the kiln to set pots on to load and unload, and a small wooden rack for the kiln shelves when they’re not in use. 

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Outsunny-6-ft-x-9-ft-Metal-Outdoor-Backyard-Garden-Utility-Storage-Tool-Shed-Kit-with-Spacious-Design-and-WeatherResistant-Roof-845-031GY/313811987

 

edit: yes, I realize it’s galvanized, not tin. But tin foil is shorter to say than aluminum foil, and that’s the colloquialism.

I'm sorry if I came off insulting in any manner or if I'm about to do so now, but I don't know how to say this better.

There's a reason that seems cheap.  It is.  They are using 30 gauge metal for the siding.  Essentially tissue paper in the metal world. That is enough right there for me not to want to even try it.  I could go on listing its many defects but my point is not in any way to insult you.  Many homeowners actually install stuff like that.  It lasts usually around 5 to 10 years, or until the first hail storm.  Then it turns into a collapsing rusting mess.

I actually never even considered those things when you were talking about metal shed kits, I was thinking of the kits that use materials of acceptable quality - metal not less than 26g and just higher quality components all around.  They will run over $1000 because the higher quality materials cost at least twice as much (at least).

Materials quality aside, consider the size of the opening.  That is too small to get kiln sections in.  At 5' 2" and even if I COULD pick one up by myself and hold it vertically without dragging it on the ground, I am pretty sure it weighs to much for me to actually go anywhere with it - and, kiln neophyte that I am, I am pretty sure trying to move it like that, on end, undertall, and distinctly underpowered, the risk of damage to the kiln section is crazy high.  I'd be surprised if damage didn't become dead certain under those circumstances.  But carrying the sections in flat for assembly with the help of one or two others through a double door - much preferable. Also consider where I could possibly secure the venting, fans, and electrical boxes needed.  There is no actual framing in that to secure any of those things to.

 

I'm sorry, but those are too flimsy for me to even trust my shovels and hoes to, let alone thousands of dollars of kiln.  I understand, people work with whatever they have to, but I don't have to work with that.  I know how to do it right from scratch.  I am betting that if you actually touched and saw the stuff in that kit, you would be equally as unwilling to risk it.

Sadly the roof is going to be a sticking point until lumber prices come down.  Plywood - the cheapest thin sheathing @3/8ths inch - is currently $65 a sheet. I've never used less than 1/2" even on an outbuilding, and you should have heard the Amish whine when I told them we would be using 5/8ths on my roof. $65 for thin sheathing plywood is really expensive.  Even crappy OSB that I would never ever use ever in a building is $60.  But I've been told by a couple of people that prices are coming down, and I have been able to see that on some things, so hopefully by the time I actually get around to building this the roof will not cost twice or 3x what it ought to.  A sheet of plywood is 32 sft and the roof will be on the order of 80 sft so I would need 3 sheets of plywood, not counting 2x6s for the rafters, shingles, and roofing paper.  The entire rest of the building will probably run me about $350 (well not counting the conventional double doors and the concrete pad).  So yeah it will end up costing me a little more especially if the price of plywood doesn't come down by the time I need it.  But it'll last and my kiln will be totally secure, and should someone, heaven forfend, ever need to get in there to work on it, at least they won't hate me for making them work in something like that.

I'm just trying to explain here WHY I don't take this advice.  I'm sorry for doing it so poorly.  Thanks for the thought.

Pye

 

 

[Pyewackette]

47 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

It is fairly common to use a louvered opening for outside air. They are generally water and storm resistant as well as screened for critters and are pretty economical. You may want to contemplate using one instead of a flap of some sort. If your gable is unvented, then using the louver can serve two purposes. They also make through wall fans louvered in the same way. Just a thought.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hessaire-650-CFM-Shutter-Exhaust-Fan-Wall-Mounted-10SFV-H/305621559

650 cfm and already configured for installation through a wall.  I didn't check whether or not it can be hardwired or if I need a cord for it, that's NBD either way. I assume it will stand up to the heat, I hope, since these are often intended to vent attics.

But for the intake you only need an opening, nothing fancy is required.  It will only ever be open when the kiln is in use and the flap itself acts as a bit of protection when its up. I'll even get all high techie and use a Neodymium magnet closure. Cut a hole through the siding, frame the opening for stability and strength and so it doesn't flex, cover the hole (before you put up the siding) with 1/4" hardware cloth to keep the mousies out of the housies.  For one thing, there is nothing quite like the acrid scent of fricasseed mousie wafting on the morning breeze because they do loves them some wiring insulation.  And for another, where mousies go, snakes are soon to follow.  Ask me how I know.

[neilestrick]

19 minutes ago, Pyewackette said:

I am pretty sure trying to move it like that, on end, undertall, and distinctly underpowered, the risk of damage to the kiln section is crazy high.

No worries about turning them sideways to move them through doorways. As long as the body bands are relatively tight, which they will be coming from the factory, you can turn each section any which way and they'll stay together just fine. I install these kilns by myself, and rarely set one up without moving the sections through a standard 30-36" doorway or down stairwells. They make them sectional for that very reason. With two people it'll be a piece of cake.

Put one of THESE through the wall, hang one of THESE from the ceiling and connect the two with a flexible duct, have a fresh air intake somewhere down low. 390cfm should be enough for a 6x6 shed. I have one in my much larger studio and it makes a noticeable difference.

EDIT: Your post came in at the same time. Yours would work for sure, but probably be a lot louder.

[Pyewackette]

3 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

No worries about turning them sideways to move them through doorways. As long as the body bands are relatively tight, which they will be coming from the factory, you can turn each section any which way and they'll stay together just fine. I install these kilns by myself, and rarely set one up without moving the sections through a standard 30-36" doorway or down stairwells. They make them sectional for that very reason. With two people it'll be a piece of cake.

Put one of THESE through the wall, hang one of THESE from the ceiling and connect the two with a flexible duct, have a fresh air intake somewhere down low. 390cfm should be enough for a 6x6 shed. I have one in my much larger studio and it makes a noticeable difference.

EDIT: Your post came in at the same time. Yours would work for sure, but probably be a lot louder.

Its good to know that I won't necessarily destroy the section just turning it on its side, but I guarantee you that my son will greatly appreciate being able to just help me carry it in through double doors LOL!  How much DOES a section weigh, anyway?  I was assuming it probably weighs a lot more than a bag of dog food (50 lbs).  Which I can still heft but then nothing bad will happen to it if I drop that, as opposed to a kiln section LOL!

I figured it would be a lot louder but its already all set up, louvered and everything, for about the same ultimate cost.  I've done more than my share of guerrilla building but some things are just worth going the conventional route and I think for me this is one of those times.  I'll stick with my guerrilla air intake flap though.  It served me well when I was using a similar mechanism to steal eggs from my chickens LOL!  They never knew what happened to them.  I just set up the nest boxes and gave myself a secret entrance from the outside, lift the flap, steal the eggs.  I always had the odd hen who insisted on trying to lay in weird places but in the main I got 'em all every morning.  I could also clean out the nesting material from the outside and add new without ever setting foot in the coop. No trouble 'tall.

I've been wondering, and I'm sorry if this is an extremely dumb question, but should I decide to turn that building into something else later, say a playhouse (obviously first removing the kiln), would any kind of harmful residue be a problem?  I will be using a kiln vent. in addition to the vent for the building.

Not because *I* plan to do that but for the next owner.  My guess is they won't be potters but may be parents.  Personally I plan to build a pirate ship in the backyard for my grandson.  If you're going to build a playhouse, make it a really really good one LOL!

[neilestrick]

33 minutes ago, Pyewackette said:

I've been wondering, and I'm sorry if this is an extremely dumb question, but should I decide to turn that building into something else later, say a playhouse (obviously first removing the kiln), would any kind of harmful residue be a problem?  I will be using a kiln vent. in addition to the vent for the building.

Between the downdraft vent and the room vent there shouldn't be any residue in there.  Remember you'll need to run a 120 volt line out there for the fans (and a light?) in addition to the circuit for the kiln. Might be worth putting in a 100 amp sub panel in the shed and running everything from that- 80 amp circuit for the kiln and a 20 amp circuit for the vent fans and a light.

[Pyewackette]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

Between the downdraft vent and the room vent there shouldn't be any residue in there.  Remember you'll need to run a 120 volt line out there for the fans (and a light?) in addition to the circuit for the kiln. Might be worth putting in a 100 amp sub panel in the shed and running everything from that- 80 amp circuit for the kiln and a 20 amp circuit for the vent fans and a light.

There is actually a 110/120 service box on the back of the house that they installed there for a hot tub that was on a 10x10 pad.  That was run underground and through the slab.  They cut the connector (and I presume flipped the breaker) so there is wire sticking up out of the 10x10 pad which is, incidentally or perhaps NOT so incidentally, where my actual pottery shed will go.  I don't know what is actually in that box nor what the service is inside the house.  My son didn't understand what he needed to ask during the inspection so I will find that out when I get there.

I do know the total available is 150A for the whole house.

I will have to have 240A  I-meant-V service put in for the kiln (I mean in addition to the other usual house stuff) and I figured letting the electrician tell me at the time what I need for each building would be my best bet.  For one thing there will be a small window AC unit in the pottery shed.  And I will be uber insulating.  I keep hearing from people who live in not usually terribly cold places that you don't NEED insulation cuz its not cold.  Except ... it is HOT.  When it can hit over 100F in May, I want uber insulation so I can keep cool without costing the earth.  I'm not so green I won't do without AC in 100+ weather given the choice.  I have done without in a hot but not quite so hot so often climate for the past 5 years, that is quite enough of that, thank you.  But I can at least be as efficient about it as possible.

I could put a light in the kiln shed but I probably won't.  Given the double doors should open up wide enough to let in plenty of light and I won't be loading or unloading in the dark ever.  I have no production schedule to maintain. Should I have some need to do something out there in the dark, I figure that's what battery powered camping lights are for LOL!  I wouldn't underpower the building based on that choice though.  I'm not sure I actually could, given that the new LED bulbs (or even shop lights) require so little power.  No sense in cheaping out on something at that level.

I may also go to the hardie board lap siding instead of the hardie sheet siding.  It costs more but it will likely be a lot easier to handle, plus coming in 12' lengths is handy when you have a 6x6 building LOL!  And it looks better, which given how close to the back of the house these will be I should probably care about that at least a little.  But I can put up a piece of that hardie lap siding by myself, a full sheet of the other stuff I would need help.  I also have a compressor powerful enough to drive a nail gun, though I'm not sure I actually have the power to use one LOL!

I may change my mind when I am confronted with the actual cost LOL!

Actually I just went and checked and it would be less than $100 more for the lap siding (on just the smaller 6x6 shed).  Not as bad as I feared.  And not out of reach.  I will probably go this way, it will be more attractive and will make my son happier.  The pottery studio at least will look more like a little cottage than an outbuilding this way.  Stuff also comes in 10' lengths - perfect for a 10x10 building.  I wouldn't have to do much of any cutting, really, this way.