Kiln never got to cone 6, should I wait longer?

[liambesaw]

11 minutes ago, Benzine said:

Sizzle Sauce sounds like the name for any drool that escapes, after you received a zap.

Do Canadians blame pixies for their woes?

I'm no anthropologist, but if YouTube videos of Canadian engineers is any indication then yes.

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Bill Kielb said:

This is exactly mid span of the bottom element and in the loaded picture above there is clearly nothing touching or near this. So now I am wondering if the 120v element was installed by mistake at the factory because the circuit diagram indicates it should be at the top. This appears to have melted midspan from overload so that is a possibility.

All of the elements in that kiln are the same.

[Benzine]

37 minutes ago, liambesaw said:

I'm no anthropologist, but if YouTube videos of Canadian engineers is any indication then yes.

Oh, I believe that YouTube can be a pretty good indicator of many things...

[Bill Kielb]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

All of the elements in that kiln are the same.

The top element is designed to run at 120V, never 240. what are you saying exactly? Never mind, I see what you are saying they are all 120V elements. So, interesting a new element melted at midspan, brand new with pins on either side of the melt but no signs of short. I still would like to see the electrical connection I think. This is an odd failure for a brand new element

[GoodKarma]

UPDATE! It was indeed a malfunction within the kiln! The electrician had everything wired correctly the first time (30 amp). Skutt reviewed my photos, and said it was a short due to incorrect assembly (they think it was bad pin placement and the pin was either touching two elements or a screw).  Since I'm too far for a kiln tech to come out, they are sending me a replacement ASAP, and I will pack this one up and send it back. 

[liambesaw]

17 minutes ago, GoodKarma said:

UPDATE! It was indeed a malfunction within the kiln! The electrician had everything wired correctly the first time (30 amp). Skutt reviewed my photos, and said it was a short due to incorrect assembly (they think it was bad pin placement and the pin was either touching two elements or a screw).  Since I'm too far for a kiln tech to come out, they are sending me a replacement ASAP, and I will pack this one up and send it back. 

Amazing!  Nice work and hope everything goes well with your new one! Happy firing

[Bill Kielb]

20 minutes ago, GoodKarma said:

UPDATE! It was indeed a malfunction within the kiln! The electrician had everything wired correctly the first time (30 amp). Skutt reviewed my photos, and said it was a short due to incorrect assembly (they think it was bad pin placement and the pin was either touching two elements or a screw).  Since I'm too far for a kiln tech to come out, they are sending me a replacement ASAP, and I will pack this one up and send it back. 

Fantastic ending!

No more 50 amp breakers on 30  amp  rated circuit though. We don’t want to read about a melted studio.

[GoodKarma]

 

30 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

Fantastic ending!

No more 50 amp breakers on 30  amp  rated circuit though. We don’t want to read about a melted studio.

No sir! Electrician is coming out tomorrow to switch it back to a 30 amp. 

[Callie Beller Diesel]

On September 12, 2019 at 12:33 PM, Benzine said:

Sizzle Sauce sounds like the name for any drool that escapes, after you received a zap.

Do Canadians blame pixies for their woes?

Not usually. It's always the moose.

[Babs]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:27 AM, neilestrick said:

Sometimes elements just decide to melt out. Could be something was on it like a piece of glaze or such, but sometimes they just seem to go. It's also possible that a pin right there was touching a screw coming in from the outside, which would explain the breaker flipping and the element frying. It failed hard, and took a little bit of the brick with it. When you replace the element, you can probably just dig out any melted stuff, and make sure you pin it right there. You probably won't need to replace the brick unless you have to dig out a really big chunk.

As for the wiring: The kiln pulls 20 amps, correct? Code requires that it be on a breaker that is rated 25% higher but no more that 50% higher, so it should be on a 25 or 30 amp breaker. The wires feeding the outlet should be rated for at least 30 amps, which means at least 10 gauge wire. To use the 50 amp breaker, the wires would need to be at least 6 gauge, which is much larger than the 10 gauge. If the electrician used 10 gauge wire and a 50 amp breaker, he doesn't know what he's doing, and has put you in a dangerous situation because the 10 gauge wires can overheat and melt and cause a fire if 50 amps go through them. Plus a 50 amp breaker on a 20 amp kiln  is not up to code, and again the electrician doesn't know what he's doing. The solution to a tripping breaker is not a higher breaker. There's something causing it to trip that must be fixed. You found the problem which is good, but you should either have another electrician in to make everything correct withe wiring and breaker, or have the original electrician in to fix everything and get it up to code at no cost to you.

You nailed it Neil:-)

[Benzine]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:32 PM, Callie Beller Diesel said:

Not usually. It's always the moose.

I had a friend, who lived in Northern Maine.  We always joked, that it was the moose antlers, that interfered with his internet and cell phone signal.  

[kraythe]

One thing I noticed about electric kilns is unless you get a powerful one with 50 amp or better circuit (which usually requires professional electrical work) they are weak for any decent glaze firing. I went to a Skutt Propane kiln for that and the ability to get reducing atmosphere. All I have to do is have it in my garage with the door open and a powerful fan blowing over it and I get great results.

[Bill Kielb]

13 hours ago, kraythe said:

One thing I noticed about electric kilns is unless you get a powerful one with 50 amp or better circuit (which usually requires professional electrical work) they are weak for any decent glaze firing. I went to a Skutt Propane kiln for that and the ability to get reducing atmosphere. All I have to do is have it in my garage with the door open and a powerful fan blowing over it and I get great results.

Garage? Careful of those ceilings, nearby combustibles and ventilation for sure! Whatever can see inside your kiln will get super hot, even from a distance, hence the concern for combustibles above.

[kraythe]

2 hours ago, Bill Kielb said:

Garage? Careful of those ceilings, nearby combustibles and ventilation for sure! Whatever can see inside your kiln will get super hot, even from a distance, hence the concern for combustibles above.

Not to worry, I use a stack of insulating  bricks on top and a powerful fan.

 

[Bill Kielb]

17 hours ago, kraythe said:

Not to worry, I use a stack of insulating  bricks on top and a powerful fan.

 

Yeah, having seen the picture, Please  be careful. Fresh air, fire extinguisher, anything you can think of to stay safe especially with all the wood and combustibles in the area, not to mention propane storage. One hour rated walls usually require double 5/8” drywall  to achieve their rating. Most garages are not built with 1 hour rated walls and ceilings. Hood, flue, real combustion air all  code things for a  good reason. Stay safe, we want to see your pottery for years to come.

[Hulk]

omg

[Babs]

Omgx1000 to the tenth.

One little comment,  prob not the most salient here, lid not a weight nearing surface

[liambesaw]

39 minutes ago, Babs said:

Omgx1000 to the tenth.

One little comment,  prob not the most salient here, lid not a weight nearing surface

Lol one of the least of the problems with that setup but salient nonetheless.

[kraythe]

On 9/28/2019 at 9:49 AM, Bill Kielb said:

Garage? Careful of those ceilings, nearby combustibles and ventilation for sure! Whatever can see inside your kiln will get super hot, even from a distance, hence the concern for combustibles above.

*shrug* I make do. I dont understand your comment on lid. It works fine, the garage door above doesnt even get warm. Not all of us have a studio with lots of equiment.

[Babs]

I don't either kraythe. Make, make do , reuse, invent etc etc

Going on seventy here , seen and had a lot of set ups...vacuum cleaners blowing air into oil  fuel dripping in front of kiln inlet, kiln, kilns in kitchens, let's just say your set up freaked me a lot.

Murphy is on my shoulder I know. I know that much for sure,  and try to remember that at all times.

Take care.

My point non weight bearing. If lid implodes,   what next?

Insurance folk ok?

[Bill Kielb]

6 hours ago, kraythe said:

*shrug* I make do. I dont understand your comment on lid. It works fine, the garage door above doesnt even get warm. Not all of us have a studio with lots of equiment.

Just folks concerned for safety. Potters are inventive by nature and often make do. It is why I said

“Please  be careful. Fresh air, fire extinguisher, anything you can think of to stay safe”

Not many of us started with a full studio, firing outdoors might be an alternative, I don’t know, but the message I hope you take is regardless of stature, still try and be as safe as possible in the end we want to see your pots for a long time to come.

[Benzine]

16 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said:

Not many of us started with a full studio, firing outdoors might be an alternative,

One of my classrooms, we had a commercial Raku kiln.  We kept it inside, during most the year, as we only did a couple firings in the Fall.  The Art Room was a converted Auto Shop, so we had a garage door, that we could open.  We had a modified cart, that was previously used to move a grand piano, the kiln was sitting on.  When firing, we would wheel it outside.  Once cooled, rolled it back in.  I was even hesitant to roll it in, when it was still *warm* on the inside, for fear that a piece dust or lint would magically fall on it, combust leading to the school burning to the ground.  (I am also the person, who checks the settings on my digital controller to make sure the firing program I have been using ten years, didn't somehow change...)

The cart was a nice solution, and worked well.  But like Bill said, it is safer to find alternatives.

[liambesaw]

7 hours ago, kraythe said:

*shrug* I make do. I dont understand your comment on lid. It works fine, the garage door above doesnt even get warm. Not all of us have a studio with lots of equiment.

Shouldn't stack things on a lid because the lids are not meant to hold weight.  Everything gets a little loosey goosey at high temperatures and if the lid caves in while firing it could be a huge mess.

[Babs]

Yeh Kraythe..concern shown not personal criticism for sure.

Benzine's system may work fot you.

Any one think of a self supprting flue system for this setup?..free standing the kiln could be wheeled under?

Should be possible.

My gas kiln from years ago had a short flue emerging from kiln..and a hood  and main flue suspended a short ways above that.

All from other folk's cast offs.

I dampened the short flue with a brick at start of firing and then later for reduction purposes.

If on wheels that kiln could have been moved under that suspended hood and flue.

Stay safe. 

[kraythe]

22 hours ago, liambesaw said:

Shouldn't stack things on a lid because the lids are not meant to hold weight.  Everything gets a little loosey goosey at high temperatures and if the lid caves in while firing it could be a huge mess.

Those are insulating fire bricks, they weigh almost nothing. The whole set of them is maybe 5 to 10 punds max. They are just used to redirect the heat from the garage door.