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MamaJenXO

Underglaze Bleeding Wanted!

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How do I get my blue/black underglaze to bleed?

I have tried to add cobalt but it all just stays put and I Want the blues to bleed!

Our studio fires to Cone 10, our clear is the John Britt No Craze clear.

I am using Amaco Velvet underglazes and have tried both putting on greenware and bisqued ware. I am using a white porcelain (550)

Any help MUCH appreciated

Thanks,

Jen

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i haven’t done this in a while but if i remember right the black mostly bled and i think a dark almost black blue bled.

does the clear move? i achieved the bleeding by applying the underglaze and immediately applying the clear glaze. lots of it - but not too much to cause the cloudiness.

thin lines have not bled that much. thicker lines with 3 or 4 coates of ug has bled. 

if i want the design to move i’ve applied glaze and then applied underglaze (though mostly cobalt) on top of the glaze. it does not bleed. it just shifts. 

also if i remember right, my walls bled, not the floors of the pots. 

good luck!!!

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You need the clear glaze to move, and you have to put the underglaze thick enough that it'll get picked up. It shouldn't matter when you apply them. I do all my underglaze decorating on leather hard, and the glaze still moves it even though the underglaze gets bisque fired on.

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Thank you all so far

I have been putting 3 coats of the underglaze on, and perhaps I need to put a thicker glaze covering on - I've just been doing a quick dip - but I will try more of all.

I am also going to add some 3134 Frit to the underglaze, and then on another add some Gertsley and do test pieces. (as well as thicker applications of both under and clear glazes)

Any more ideas welcome!

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Try some test tiles using the same glaze recipe but less of whatever type of clay is in it. I don't have the recipe for that glaze but if for example it has 25 epk in it then mix up the recipe but with 8 less epk then dip a test tile with the underglaze on it, then add 2 more epk and repeat, keep doing this until the total epk is 23 (for this example). The first test tile might craze with the epk reduced by approx 25% but there should be a tipping point where you get running from the glaze being more fluid yet not so overfluxed that it now crazes.

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This is the look I am seeking - Sean O'Connell and Dawn Candy pieces- I have reached out to them also to see if they would share their knowledge 

I just really like the idea of the underglaze flowing

poppysteins.jpg

MG_4863.jpg

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I don't think adding flux to the underglaze is going to help much, unless you add enough that it actually melts like a glaze. Focus on the clear glaze. Needs to be fluid, and needs to be thick enough to move. I don't get any bleeding if the glaze is too thin.

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3 hours ago, MamaJenXO said:

This is the look I am seeking - Sean O'Connell and Dawn Candy pieces- I have reached out to them also to see if they would share their knowledge 

I just really like the idea of the underglaze flowing

I wonder if the apparent 'bleeding' is a technique used at the time the blue colorant was applied to the pieces - that was the way I achieved similar effect on canvas with water color and pastel crayons.  after lots of practice a "light" stroke with the "right" brush would produce the allusion of bleeding.   

LT
 

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4 minutes ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

I wonder if the apparent 'bleeding' is a technique used at the time the blue colorant was applied to the pieces - that was the way I achieved similar effect on canvas with water color and pastel crayons.  after lots of practice a "light" stroke with the "right" brush would produce the allusion of bleeding.   

LT
 

 I follow a number of people on Instagram who use bleeding underglaze, and I've never seen them making it bleed in the raw stage. It's always the glaze causing the bleed. I can control the degree of bleeding on my work by simply making the glaze more or less fluid.

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I just had a cone 6 fire where I put Amaco undeglaze on the top of a glaze.....it did blend in better....it was on top of Amaco Snow Celadon. I tried the white on Amaco Mulberry celadon and it did not entirely melt. 

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On 8/20/2019 at 11:37 AM, Magnolia Mud Research said:

I wonder if the apparent 'bleeding' is a technique used at the time the blue colorant was applied to the pieces - that was the way I achieved similar effect on canvas with water color and pastel crayons.  after lots of practice a "light" stroke with the "right" brush would produce the allusion of bleeding.   

LT
 

LT i was looking at the cups really closely and thinking what you are thinking because the bleeding is so uniform in the first set of cups. Almost like a perfect outline width of bleeding. When i had bleeding it was more like the white cups. Wonder if they didn’t like the bleeding and so applied gold on top.

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@preeta the first set of cups were made by Dawn Candy, who is actually from my neck of the woods. She’s @littlesisterpottery on IG if you want to check her out. Those particular models look like some of her older work.  Her whole process is to draw with a slip trailer and underglazes (I have no idea what brand), and then she layers glazes that run over top. 

The second set are Sean O’connel’s, and he actually has a video here on CLAYflicks on his decorating process. These cups are part of it. 

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I've got a girlfriend who has signed up for a Dawn Candy workshop, on the materials list she said she uses Amaco Velvets but can use other brands. Sean O'Connel's website has the glaze recipe he uses from 2018 as Campana Clear. I've tested that glaze, it is fluid.  (contains zinc so chrome green stains in green underglazes are going to go muddy)

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If you notice both examples of running/bleeding you posted are blue, most likely a cobalt (carbonate or oxide) wash rather than an underglaze. If you are after blue, I would use a cobalt wash rather than underglaze. Unless it is very thinly applied, cobalt will have a tendency to run or bleed. 

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On 8/20/2019 at 11:37 AM, Magnolia Mud Research said:

I wonder if the apparent 'bleeding' is a technique used at the time the blue colorant was applied to the pieces - that was the way I achieved similar effect on canvas with water color and pastel crayons.  after lots of practice a "light" stroke with the "right" brush would produce the allusion of bleeding.   

LT
 

I tend to agree with LT in this case that the effect is more due to washing the lines, probably after they are somewhat dry to get the watercolor effect of the underglaze bleeding...

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On 8/22/2019 at 9:42 AM, Min said:

I've got a girlfriend who has signed up for a Dawn Candy workshop, on the materials list she said she uses Amaco Velvets but can use other brands. Sean O'Connel's website has the glaze recipe he uses from 2018 as Campana Clear. I've tested that glaze, it is fluid.  (contains zinc so chrome green stains in green underglazes are going to go muddy)

Yes he was very helpful - although I fire at Cone 10 and he at 7 - but I am thinking of trying out that recipe of Jeffs - just to see what happens  -it's a puzzle to be solved for sure!

Thanks!

Jen

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On 8/22/2019 at 2:33 PM, tinbucket said:

If you notice both examples of running/bleeding you posted are blue, most likely a cobalt (carbonate or oxide) wash rather than an underglaze. If you are after blue, I would use a cobalt wash rather than underglaze. Unless it is very thinly applied, cobalt will have a tendency to run or bleed. 

They both use just regular Amaco Velvet - it is a glaze that is a bit fluid that will cause the blues to bleed - now for finding a Cone 10 slightly fluid glaze - testtesttest

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I took a class from Dawn Candy. She uses Amaco velvet underglaze & plainsmen underglaze. She said it was a runny clear glaze that gives the bleeding effect when that clear glaze is over underglaze with blue in it.  ( If I’m remembering correctly) She mixes blue in with the black underglaze. So far, it hasn’t worked for me. I think she said to add water to the underglaze which is trailed onto her green ware. I didn’t do that part. Maybe that’s why my hasn’t bled at all. She fires to cone 6, electric kiln. I have a runny clear recipe from her that she shared with us. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind me sharing it, if anyone is interested. Dawn also uses another super runny glaze that she wouldn’t share because it can really mess up the shelves!

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YEs I do like her things!

From what I have been gleaning in my search is that it is the glaze that will make the underglazes run. And that the Amaco Velvets will run with the correct glaze.

Sean O'Connell also fires at cone 6 and uses Jeff Campana's glaze receipe - available at Jeff's website - also check out Sean's things -beautiful also.

My problem is that I am limited to firing at cone 10 - so I am testing and asking for a runny-ish clear glaze for cone 10. 

So if you are firing at cone 6  - try Jeff's glaze - it should work for you - 

Also it really is just the blues that run - they have some cobalt in them - which is why she also adds blue to her blacks.

Thankyou so much for your input!

Jen

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