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A few of my friends in our community studio have purchased small containers of "flux".   The flux is meant to be brushed over or under

the glaze.  I'm the glaze maker and a few people approached me about making our own.  It's cone 6 stuff and I just figured it was probably

water, frit 3134 (or something similar), and a little bit of clay.  Has anyone experimented with this stuff and/or made up their own recipe?  

                       

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5 hours ago, mrcasey said:

A few of my friends in our community studio have purchased small containers of "flux".   The flux is meant to be brushed over or under

the glaze.  I'm the glaze maker and a few people approached me about making our own.  It's cone 6 stuff and I just figured it was probably

water, frit 3134 (or something similar), and a little bit of clay.  Has anyone experimented with this stuff and/or made up their own recipe?  

                       

I have seen it or a version of it from Mayco  I believe and think it likely is a Boron based addition. Frit would be the likely answer in my view. Quite a bit of testing involved though to see how this works with various glazes and what concentration to make it, let alone which frit to use. Low alumina Frit would be my best guess. Below I have attached a list of Frits from lowest to highest alumina.

Most Frits contain sodium and calcium though as well as boron. I have sorted a list below lowest to highest alumina. It is a bit deceiving as 3134 contains no alumina yet appears at the bottom of the list. Go excel sorting! It might be one of my first trials. As to how much, I might be inclined to look at the thickness of the commercial product for an idea but they likely contains CMC for brush-ability.  Trial and testing probably gets you something very similar.

Analytically I have used the Katz boron research to dial in various cones. For instance 0.42 Boron in UMF gets me cone 04 and 0.15 gets me cone six. So when I want a slightly runny boron  glaze  I will try and dial in say cone 4  ish and test, knowing that firing to cone six likely will make it move a bit. This is easy to do with a recipe and simple progressions made, but just brushing coats on would be a guess so testing seems the only way to come up with the right variability.

My guess, your frit ( boron ) idea seems solid but have not run tests on this. If ya figure it out, post it back here for everyone.

D5A44039-CF10-46F1-A40B-E1FE60FDD3C1.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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Have a look at Strontium Crystal Magic and Jens Juicy Fruit. I use them for layering, primarily because they introduce a certain degree of flow in otherwise stable glazes. They are both good at cone 6.

/Sofus

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5 hours ago, Sofusryge said:

Have a look at Strontium Crystal Magic and Jens Juicy Fruit. I use them for layering, primarily because they introduce a certain degree of flow in otherwise stable glazes. They are both good at cone 6.

/Sofus

SCM hasn't ever made a glaze flow for me, usually the opposite, it's matte and sucks up other glazes, but definitely makes them a bit more variable!  JJF definitely adds some movement though!

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SCM is a glaze runner for me. Pete's Seafoam over cool, Val's Turquoise over cool, Tony Hansen's G1214Z base with 6% rutile, 3% copper carb and 1.5% cobalt carb over cool  - all of these will run pretty good - testing will determine how much to apply - it will run. I have a Butterscotch that runs if over Warm.

I wonder if the firing schedule might influence the amount of running?

 

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Could be, here's a pot I just pulled today, it's variegated slate blue over SCM, the runs are a blue ash glaze that runs no matter what, but yeah.

Pay no mind to the large blistery things, was doing an experiment for a friend on adding rock salt to the surface and well... Scabs.

 

IMG_20190722_135029-1209x1612.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Babs said:

Salt in an electric kiln. You're a brave man Liam!

Was just a couple chunks of rock salt, but it doesn't look like it did much at cone 6 unfortunately.  I was expecting it to flux a bit, he was expecting it to just fall off the vessel when it heated, we both were wrong haha.  I wasn't too concerned about the salt vaporizing considering a have plenty of sodium in my glazes to begin with in the form of soda potash and soda ash.

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I use a soda wash on unglazed areas from time to time . Does the elements no good I gather.

What are those bleeds in your glaze?

Edited by Babs

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35 minutes ago, Babs said:

I use a soda wash on unglazed areas from time to time . Does the elements no good I gather.

What are those bleeds in your glaze?

The bleeds are a cone 6 wood ash glaze.  I filled the incisions with it and then cut it back.  This was an experiment piece, mainly to see how the ash glaze in the incised lines would behave, I added the salt just to see what would happen since I had just been talking to someone about it.  As far as chlorine, from everything I've read, NaCl doesn't degrade at temperatures we fire to, at least not in any kind of measurable way.  As you can see, the salt is still there, it hasn't even fluxed into the glaze yet.  At any measure, it was just a gram or so of rock salt, I think my kiln can handle it, hope so anyway!

 

Here we go, from the Wikipedia page for ionic compounds:

When vapourized, the ions are still not freed of one another. For example, in the vapour phase sodium chloride exists as diatomic "molecules".

Found here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionic_compound

Basically it says that ionic compounds like NaCl have electrostatic bonds so strong that even when heated to vaporization they still remain bonded.  Pretty neat stuff!  No worries about free chlorine gas being liberated and then forming HCl in my kiln/lungs/eyes/neighbors :lol:

Edited by liambesaw

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Interesting as other srticles speak of glass windows being etched by the vapours but maybe I am remembering s.thing else.....tis the straw that breaks the camel's back...

 

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14 hours ago, liambesaw said:

As you can see, the salt is still there, it hasn't even fluxed into the glaze yet

Melting point of NaCl is ~801 C or ~ cone 014.  The vapor pressure at melting is low but observable.   See CRC Chemical Handbook.  

LT

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1 hour ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

Melting point of NaCl is ~801 C or ~ cone 014.  The vapor pressure at melting is low but observable.   See CRC Chemical Handbook.  

LT

But that doesn't mean it degrades into sodium and free chlorine gas, right?  I was reading about it all night last night and everything I read said you can't separate the ions even at high temperatures.  Either way, happy to report the kiln is fine, and the experiment concluded with me not interested in using salt in it again.

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9 hours ago, Babs said:

Flourides!

Fluorine gas from cryolite, Cornwall stone (the real stuff not the synthetic) and fluorspar will etch glass.

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Yes that was what was creeping thro' from back of brain...same area of Periodic table....get there in the end  but takes longer some days.

I have just fired the 2 remaining mugs from the big handle disaster in "Interesting results" so tomorrow I will report...

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On 7/21/2019 at 3:13 AM, Bill Kielb said:

Most Frits contain sodium and calcium though as well as boron. I have sorted a list below lowest to highest alumina. It is a bit deceiving as 3134 contains no alumina yet appears at the bottom of the list. Go excel sorting!

 

I think if you put in a value of zero it will sort it correctly. It probably defaults no-value entries to the bottom of the list.

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21 hours ago, neilestrick said:

I think if you put in a value of zero it will sort it correctly. It probably defaults no-value entries to the bottom of the list.

Yeah, I know. Small list and populating with zeros  is just a mess (lookswise) Enough trouble to get this captured and posted. You can do an advanced sort and place the blanks at the top of the list or do the same with some Visual Basic. I have put enough VBA code in this sheet as is, the next version fixes many of the annoyances and is in progress but is an experimental Stull that Katz is working on that includes the effects of colorants. We will probably forward to him just to be sure he is fine with a release of his sheet with VBA augmentation to make the data entry part easier.he is not a spreadsheet guy.

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36 minutes ago, MFP said:

Makes hydroflouric acid?

Fluorine gas, which when combined with water makes some hydrofluoric acid, but it's really reactive in itself as well so it reacts with everything!  Yay!

It's similar to chlorine in that way

 

 

Edited by liambesaw

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