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JeffK

Liquid latex resist

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Hi all:

Up to now, I've been using wax resist on my bisqueware to keep areas clear of glaze when dipping. But I'm not often happy with the result - it's hard for me to see where the wax resist is and I don't get clean lines when the pieces come out of glaze firing.

I've been reading about liquid latex resist but it seems there are different types. Saw one with ammonia as an ingredient and don't know if this is typical. Could you please educate this aspiring potter as to what type of liquid latex resist is best and if there are any brands you recommend. Also, if there are any types of brushes you recommend to apply it.

Thanks as always for your help and guidance!

- Jeff

 

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This is not responsive to your question in the second paragraph, but about the causal issue you refer to in the first paragraph. If you put some green or blue food coloring in the wax resist, you will be able to see exactly where it has been applied. Don't use other colors as they are hard to see against some clay bodies.

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Hi Jeff!

For a sharper transition line I wax and cut, or tape and wax; from there, the edge may soften, depending on the glazes.

Wax and cut: Glaze past the boundary (a lip or edge - where it's not possible to tape, else, tape is easier...), allow glaze to dry. Wax past the boundary, allow the wax to dry (be patient here!!). Cut the line with a razor knife, carefully sponge away any remaining glaze. Allow the clay to dry! Dip the second colour, carefully sponge away any drops that bead up on the wax side. See Tony Hansen's video*.

Tape and wax: Tape your edge; run fingernail along the edge o' th' tape to lock it down, then glaze. Allow the glaze to dry some, then wax. When the wax has set up some, pull the tape - you'll have to learn when the time is right, and pull the tape such that the edge o' th' tape acts as a knife edge, cutting the film of glaze and wax cleanly. Wait for the clay to dry!! Dip second colour.

That for dippin' - spraying is another ball game, eh?

*found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlZqlsF1rFU

The more glaze literate may expand on "...depending on the glazes..." - some stay on their side o' the line, some don't!

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The product you will like is

https://www.axner.com/liquid-latex-ammonia-based.aspx

Its easy to apply and you can bruch it on with any artist brush

It can only be shipped in non freezing times like now -I like it better than the water based products.But you should try both kinds to find your favorite

It dry fast and peels off if ypu need that.it will also just burn off in kiln

Also a good wax resist will do things like this -search wax resist  from main home page to see whats been said.

Edited by Mark C.

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3 hours ago, Dick White said:

This is not responsive to your question in the second paragraph, but about the causal issue you refer to in the first paragraph. If you put some green or blue food coloring in the wax resist, you will be able to see exactly where it has been applied. Don't use other colors as they are hard to see against some clay bodies.

This is a possibility and combined with the razor trimming mentioned below, could work. Thanks for the tip!

- Jeff

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2 hours ago, Hulk said:

Hi Jeff!

For a sharper transition line I wax and cut, or tape and wax; from there, the edge may soften, depending on the glazes.

Wax and cut: Glaze past the boundary (a lip or edge - where it's not possible to tape, else, tape is easier...), allow glaze to dry. Wax past the boundary, allow the wax to dry (be patient here!!). Cut the line with a razor knife, carefully sponge away any remaining glaze. Allow the clay to dry! Dip the second colour, carefully sponge away any drops that bead up on the wax side. See Tony Hansen's video*.

Tape and wax: Tape your edge; run fingernail along the edge o' th' tape to lock it down, then glaze. Allow the glaze to dry some, then wax. When the wax has set up some, pull the tape - you'll have to learn when the time is right, and pull the tape such that the edge o' th' tape acts as a knife edge, cutting the film of glaze and wax cleanly. Wait for the clay to dry!! Dip second colour.

That for dippin' - spraying is another ball game, eh?

*found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlZqlsF1rFU

The more glaze literate may expand on "...depending on the glazes..." - some stay on their side o' the line, some don't!

The "wax and cut" seems like a possibility. Was thinking about taping off areas like when we're doing trim work at home. I'm not sure how that would work on the bottom part of vases and bowls where the curvature might prevent the tape from laying flat. Might take a shot - don't know until you try. Thanks!

- Jeff

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25 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

The product you will like is

https://www.axner.com/liquid-latex-ammonia-based.aspx

Its easy to apply and you can bruch it on with any artist brush

It can only be shipped in non freezing times like now -I like it better than the water based products.

It dry fast and peels off if ypu need that.it will also just burn off in kiln

Also a good wax resist will do things like this -search wax resist  from main home page to see whats been said.

This was the product I had come across earlier - wasn't sure how the ammonia base fit into the chemistry.  I like the idea of peeling off the latex before firing. Do you have any preference yourself ie wax vs latex? Or do you make the call based on the type of piece and the glaze you're using?

Thanks for the help with this - appreciate everyone's guidance!

- Jeff

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If I want to peel it I use the latex.I only use this to peel  as it works so well for that.

If I want to just resist I use my liquid water based wax resist and a brush -I do this on making ceramic fish with small model brushes

Many of the new wax resists are junk now so find a good wax .

 

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10 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

If I want to peel it I use the latex.I only use this to peel  as it works so well for that.

If I want to just resist I use my liquid water based wax resist and a brush -I do this on making ceramic fish with small model brushes

Many of the new wax resists are junk now so find a good wax .

 

Thanks Mark - appreciate the update. The wax I'm using right now is from the "community bottle" that the studio supplies. Don't know the quality and not sure if it's me or the wax. Just unhappy with the blotchy glaze trim lines I come up with especially in and around the foot of the piece I'm working on.  Good suggestions above and will work on it.

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If you are having issues with sharp lines, are you using a banding wheel to apply the wax?  It helps keep an even line.  I usually don't use a banding wheel for things like mugs but if I'm waxing the outside of a vase or something I'll toss it on the banding wheel and giver a spin.  Works good.

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@JeffK, are you allowed to use hot wax in your studio? Much faster than cold wax resist or latex and it makes a really clean line when you dip pots in it. If you are only allowed cold wax resist what makes a clean line easier than a brush is to use a scrap of foam, just a little piece, the foam that comes with cones works or a cut up sponge, then hold that and use it to apply the wax. Banding wheel helps but even without one you can get a clean line using foam / sponge. Just have to remember not to use the hand that held the foam when you touch the pots so you don't get the resist finger smudges on the pots.

One other method is not to use wax or resist at all on the bottoms of pots. After glazing rub the bottom of the pot against a fairly damp piece of low nap carpet / mat or a large piece of thin foam. Rotate the pot and the damp mat will clean off the glaze and leave a crisp line. If you use glazes with a high iron content and a light colour claybody this method will leave iron stains on the clay both for glazes not high in iron it works well.

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2 hours ago, JeffK said:

This was the product I had come across earlier - wasn't sure how the ammonia base fit into the chemistry.  I like the idea of peeling off the latex before firing. Do you have any preference yourself ie wax vs latex? Or do you make the call based on the type of piece and the glaze you're using?

Thanks for the help with this - appreciate everyone's guidance!

- Jeff

So just to add, if you happen across an automotive supply store that sells pin stripe tape (oreilly’s has it here) the type used for masking before spraying it can provide an easy method to get a razor sharp line. It is plastic, very flexible in two directions and the adhesive is tack free. You can absolutely tape things smoothly regardless of the complexity of the shape it is adhered to as well as the shape you are forming. Just an idea, comes in 1/8” and 1/2” which is usually plenty over which normal masking can supplement it for large area coverage.

a bit tedious but a sure fire way when needed for those projects that are demanding. Works well in spraying applications as mentioned above in conjunction with wax over the finished sprayed glaze before tape removal.

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I use liquid latex to peel away. I have used both water base and ammonia base. I don't like the ammonia base. Besides using ceramic suppliers I sometimes use liquid latex for facial sculpture. It is brushable. I get it on eBay.  I  draw on slabs, paint the latex where I don't want glaze. Spray the background glaze. Peel off the latex and apply a thin line of luster. I use this primarily for Raku pieces.

Marcia

 

bronco.JPG

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In taping curved surfaces, a burnished groove really helps - vases, bowls, etc. - the edge of even plain cheap masking tape catches and also stretches well enough; a groove also acts as a guide. A tiny cut with a trimming tool widens a bit when burnished with (curved) back edge of a small loop tool.

I'm gonna try that pinstripe tape Bill! 

Here the lip edges were done wax and cut; the transitions on the outside by tape and wax. The highlighted chatter marks, float on with a wetted brush, wipe offa with small sponge...

 

fire 2 ii.jpg

Edited by Hulk
morre

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You will love it for its stretch, conformity, workability and edge seal. Just burnish before glazing, no creep under the tape seam! Have used it very successfully for chemical etching as well to easily get some very fine uniform frosted pattern etch work on mugs, etc... cuts well when pulling back to remove.

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2 hours ago, Hulk said:

In taping curved surfaces, a burnished groove really helps - vases, bowls, etc. - the edge of even plain cheap masking tape catches and also stretches well enough; a groove also acts as a guide. A tiny cut with a trimming tool widens a bit when burnished with (curved) back edge of a small loop tool.

I'm gonna try that pinstripe tape Bill! 

Here the lip edges were done wax and cut; the transitions on the outside by tape and wax. The highlighted chatter marks, float on with a wetted brush, wipe offa with small sponge...

 

fire 2 ii.jpg

Nice!

Here is an example foot where the tape was put on straddling inside and out slightly then the clear glaze sprayed liberally bowl upside down. Flip it and spray right side up. Take off the tape, instant perfect foot inside and out. The second bowl is done your way with tape at the rim, celadon glaze the side, wax over then spray the inside with just a light overlap of the clear and celadon so the precise edge blends uniformly. Best I could do with the pictures but if you look at the foot in the close up you will barely see the tape line.

these were very precise items made to order though.

89EF1FE2-8B24-414F-AFE7-0A35378B8332.jpeg

77B272B8-EAAD-4AD3-A1B5-F9D1DA9DF421.jpeg

1BC270C1-22F0-465A-B8B5-68FF6A3E5BA6.jpeg

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6 hours ago, liambesaw said:

If you are having issues with sharp lines, are you using a banding wheel to apply the wax?  It helps keep an even line.  I usually don't use a banding wheel for things like mugs but if I'm waxing the outside of a vase or something I'll toss it on the banding wheel and giver a spin.  Works good.

Thanks Liam. I actually saw one of the potters using the banding wheel to apply wax to the bottom of some bowls she was working on. Definitely an idea that stuck in my head. Thanks for the confirm!

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6 hours ago, Min said:

@JeffK, are you allowed to use hot wax in your studio? Much faster than cold wax resist or latex and it makes a really clean line when you dip pots in it. If you are only allowed cold wax resist what makes a clean line easier than a brush is to use a scrap of foam, just a little piece, the foam that comes with cones works or a cut up sponge, then hold that and use it to apply the wax. Banding wheel helps but even without one you can get a clean line using foam / sponge. Just have to remember not to use the hand that held the foam when you touch the pots so you don't get the resist finger smudges on the pots.

One other method is not to use wax or resist at all on the bottoms of pots. After glazing rub the bottom of the pot against a fairly damp piece of low nap carpet / mat or a large piece of thin foam. Rotate the pot and the damp mat will clean off the glaze and leave a crisp line. If you use glazes with a high iron content and a light colour claybody this method will leave iron stains on the clay both for glazes not high in iron it works well.

Appreciate this. I've never tried the sponge application but will give it a try. BTW - haven't seen anyone using hot wax in the studio so not sure if it can be done there.

Using a damp mat to clean the bottoms is possible but I am worried about staining.  Still working up my skills on glazing but certainly will consider it.

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3 hours ago, Marcia Selsor said:

I use liquid latex to peel away. I have used both water base and ammonia base. I don't like the ammonia base. Besides using ceramic suppliers I sometimes use liquid latex for facial sculpture. It is brushable. I get it on eBay.  I  draw on slabs, paint the latex where I don't want glaze. Spray the background glaze. Peel off the latex and apply a thin line of luster. I use this primarily for Raku pieces.

Marcia

 

 

Thanks Marcia. Raku is certainly something I'd like to try as well.  The more I learn, the more I need to learn!

Loved seeing one of your pieces!

- Jeff

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I use a sponge to apply wax-I get cleaner lines with a cut piece of hydra sponge  than a brush -use scissors to cut a 3 inch spong into about-6-8 pieces use the damp with water then soak up some wax and use the cut edge to apply-I get clean lines and its twice as fast as a brush. after 40 years you can wax very well with clean lines-ok anyone can do it with just a little practice. Do not leave to much wax in sponge or it can drip.I keep my sponges in the wax container which is usually a yogurt or salsa container(plasic with snap lid.

Edited by Mark C.

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Jeff, for detailed work I’ve watched the decorators in the factories in China  using a latex resist I’m not sure if it was water or ammonia base or if it would make a difference duplicating detailed blue and white traditional designs. They made it look easy although I’m sure it’ll take practice brushing on green tinted latex over transfer design and then immediately tracing the transfer design with a sharp bamboo stylus through the latex removing a fine line on the still wet resist. Repeating this process small area by small area until the entire piece is covered in the latex with as fine a line cut as needed over the complete design using the stylus. After the latex dries completely they brush on oxides, peal away the latex and spray on clear glaze single fire I think. it’s a nice effect and when they do it produces clean sharp cobalt blue designs. Having not tried this it may not work as well on bisque ware, watching them work they cut the wet latex quickly and easily and the lines remained clean I’m not sure of the mix they used for the oxides. I have some photographs of them working I’d post but don’t have them handy at the moment.

Edited by 1515art

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For the bottoms of my pots I’ve quit waxing and just wipe the bottom with a big tan utility sponge after I glaze holding my pot in one hand and the sponge in the other twisting my pot back and forth on the sponge until I get a clean line, clearing as little or as much as I want. If my pressure is steady and even the line is also clean, sharp and even it takes only seconds to clean the foot and I’ve never had a problem with pieces sticking due to this technique alone. It will stain white clay foot with the colorants in the glaze so resist is better if that’s a problem. 

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the factory in china is most likely doing that kind of work on greenware.   the immediacy of the result  is why i really love doing things on greenware.  carving through a covering slip, scraping off a mistake, everything is easier with single firing.     i do not know why people are afraid of it.   if you can pick up a baby without breaking it, you probably can pick up greenware without crushing it in your big, clumsy hands.   wait.   who said you are clumsy?   do not believe it.   just look at whatever you are picking up and see where it is balanced.  remember gravity and strain, never use a handle, lift from below the heaviest part and remember it is only clay.

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Incredible amount of wisdom, experience, and technique here. Many thanks to all.

I've got some more work to do on the wheel this week and then will move over to glazing. I'm going to stick with wax for now and take advantage of the ideas of using the banding wheel, sponge application, and possibly taping off or removing wax by scraping off. I like the idea of setting foot down on a sponge and spinning it around to wipe off any excess glaze.

Still considering liquid latex - I've always believed there's more than one tool that can be used in any process.

BTW - never dropped any babies but have shattered some greenware. Just last week busted a shallow bowl by pulling it towards me by the rim when moving it on the shelf. Was in too much of a rush. Lesson learned. :)

- Jeff

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