lilipil 6 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hello! Could anybody recommend or point me to the recipe of basic oil based clay? Please! I know that's a weird question with a lot of "why would you do that". I'm currently using plasticine – oil based clay for my master models, and then make slipcasting forms out of them. I use hardest type of it, available at the art/hobby shops. It is usually grey or terracota-red, but this doesn't matter, just to understand what am talking about. My current guess is to use dried earthenware or stoneware powder, add some wax or parafinn and some oil (like cooking oil, or motor oil – i think i need some type of non-dryeing oil). Why do i need this? 1) I want to control the ingredients, so i can make harder or softer oil-based clay. Currently i can only heat up or cool the clay from the hobby-shop to change it's plasticity. 2) I need a huge batch of plasticine (like 100kg) and i have almost infinite supply of regular water-based clay. 3) Why wouldn't i use regular water clay if i have so much of it? I need something, that does not dry/shrink/crack and can be reused. That's the idea Thx! LeeU 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glazenerd 1,630 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 @lilipil Welcome to the forums. Interesting request. Not an area of clay I have researched, but I do know a few things about it. There are a combination of oils; linseed, petroleum jelly, and bee or paraffin wax. I assume you know this clay has to be blended hot? The heat thins the oils and melts the wax, before any materials are added. From what I recall of a conversion back in 2016; the white variety is powdered limestone and the red body is made from Redart. Redart is available from most any pottery supply house. My friend is at NCECA at the moment, but I will email him to see if he has a recipe. Might be a bit before I hear from him. I would think there would be a recipe floating around in cyber space somewhere. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Callie Beller Diesel 2,550 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hi and welcome! Laguna makes this specifically for the entertainment industry and design models. It's not meant to be fired, but the info sheet does cite a 5% +/- 2% shrinkage. http://www.lagunaclay.com/clays/western/em217.php Google comes up with loads of oil based clay recipes, but like Nerd said, they all require heating, and doing 100 kg on your kitchen stove is going to be a time consuming load of hard work. glazenerd 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lilipil 6 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Thank you! Yeah, mixing hot is a good tip. Really looking forward to your friend's answer – advice from someone who tried it is highly appreciated. --- I've ran into this (haven't tried it yet though): 20 lbs. microcrystalline wax 1¼ gal. #10 weight oil 7 lbs. plain automotive grease 50 lbs. gritless dry clay powder (Such as Kentucky ball clay, or Gordon clay) Melt wax, oil, and grease together in an electric frying kettle; stir clay in slowly once melted. Pour into shallow microwave-safe plastic containers, or into a wet plaster mold. from “Sculpture Casting,” by Kowal and Meilach, ~1972 ---- I should convert it to metric, but apart from that: Microcrystalline wax – i wonder what's that and how much different it is from parafine Regular "10W-30" should work as 10 weight oil Plain automotive grease – "solidol" should work For clay – pretty much any fine clay (non-chamotte) will do. I'll keep posted if i try anything of this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liambesaw 2,755 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 You can get microcrystalline wax from pottery supply. lilipil 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Callie Beller Diesel 2,550 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Microcrystalline wax has a finer grain and a higher melting point than parafin. It's used in cosmetics. You can get it on Amazon, too. If you're talking about chamotte, I'm assuming you're in Britain somewhere? Kentucky Ball clay is one of those very fine grained clays, and tends to be inexpensive. I would think that any kind of kaolin would also work. The purpose is to provide bulk. Most internet recipes seem to call for powdered limestone, petroleum jelly and some form of oil that contains stearic acid. I think I'd rather avoid the 10w30 personally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lilipil 6 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'm from Russia, Moscow So ordering anything in pottery volumes from Amazon or Lagunaclay is hard hehe. But i'll source something local instead. Looks like paraffine consists of microcrystalline wax and some other wax. Yeah, i'm a bit worried about skin contact with industrial oils and lubricants too. Maybe i'll try the recipe with vaseline and paraffine first. Rae Reich 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Callie Beller Diesel 2,550 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Ah! So your searches will come up with different things than mine. According to wikipedia, plasticene is: Plasticine is approximately 65% bulking agent, (principally gypsum), 10% petroleum jelly, 5% lime and 10% lanolinand stearic acid.[1] It cannot be hardened by firing, melts when exposed to heat, and is flammable at higher temperatures. So, looks like chalk, petroleum jelly, whiting and stearic acid, which is a solid waxy substance at room temperature. It also is used in candle making, cosmetics and creams. Making soap and lotions and cream was a popular hobby in North America about 15 years ago, and stearic acid is pretty easy to source here. I don’t know if there was a similar fad in your area. lilipil and Rae Reich 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magnolia Mud Research 712 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 The automobile industry used to use non-drying clay for design models. The details will most likely be OUTSIDE of the traditional clay/ceramics discipline literature. LT Rae Reich 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glazenerd 1,630 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Surprisingly Ron already responded back: no recipes- sorry. I had in some of my notes about sulfur content in clay. Been too long? Tom lilipil 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lilipil 6 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 @glazenerd Thx anyway! What does it me mean about sulfur? @Callie Beller Diesel Yeap, stearine is sometimes added to paraffin candles in this part of the world too. Which convinces me even more concerning the use of vaseline and paraffin. Looks like something waxy (so it doesn't move while cool) + something greasy (so it sticks to itself) + some fine filler (clay, talc, chalk whatever) = oil clay aka plasticine I'll try and write back sometime soon! Rae Reich and Callie Beller Diesel 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lilipil 6 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Callie Beller Diesel said: If you're talking about chamotte, I'm assuming you're in Britain somewhere? You call it grog, right? Grog is some kind of glühwein to me Callie Beller Diesel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Callie Beller Diesel 2,550 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 @lilipil Grog is finely ground fired clay, added to a clay body for strength, or to increase thermal shock resistance. Sort of like sand, but different. Or a rum drink, if you’re a pirate Let us know how it goes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rae Reich 478 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 @lilipil, it seems like you will need a Very Large electric kettle for those amounts, to have nearly *100 lbs (48 kilos?) in your batch. Your melting/heating device size will determine how much you can make at a time. *math corrections welcome Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Callie Beller Diesel 2,550 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 @Rae Reich 1kg=2.2 lbs (ish), so 100 kg= about 220-225 lbs. If you google lbs to kg, you should come up with a converter you can use in the browser. Works for F to C as well. Rae Reich 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rae Reich 478 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 38 minutes ago, Callie Beller Diesel said: @Rae Reich 1kg=2.2 lbs (ish), so 100 kg= about 220-225 lbs. If you google lbs to kg, you should come up with a converter you can use in the browser. Works for F to C as well. Thanks! Converted backwards ;( That's an even bigger heated kettle - restaurant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockhopper 161 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 11:01 AM, lilipil said: Regular "10W-30" should work as 10 weight oil Not necessarily. 10W-30 motor oil is designed to be '10 weight' when cold, and gradually increase to '30 weight' (thicker) as it gets warmer. (The idea is that a lower viscosity helps the car crank easier when it's cold). I don't know the temperature at which the viscosity changes - but since your recipe calls for heating it, you may find it becomes too thick just about the time you think it would be getting thinner. Also - in addition to concerns about prolonged skin contact, any petroleum-based substance (motor oil, automotive grease, parafin) can give off some pretty nasty fumes when heated. Sounds like something you definitely want to do outdoors. Rae Reich and PeterH 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shawnkielty 0 Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 This: 20 lbs. microcrystalline wax 1¼ gal. #10 weight oil 7 lbs. plain automotive grease 50 lbs. gritless dry clay powder (Such as Kentucky ball clay, or Gordon clay) Works fine. I have done this in a 30 gallon drum over a burner. Once complete pour out onto wet concrete. There are three versions of microcrystalline wax. "Victory Brown," "Amber," and I belive there's a food grade version. In my early life we used "Bandy Black," a coarse grained ball clay. The dark color of the combination of the victory brown and bandy black was a pleasing color for me. mobility of the clay can be changed by warming the room. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LeeU 1,343 Posted August 25, 2020 Report Share Posted August 25, 2020 I have no knowledge in this area-am just a peripheral observer who likes to read/learn/understand (rather than actually do anything!) Would love to see more discussion related to slipcasting & some pics of process/forms from members of the Forum who do this. Oooo-bright idea-I'll throw this into the QotW pool! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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