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Jackeeze Matt Alterations

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This thread is an offshoot from this one where the subject of changing a non-durable high lithia matte glaze that develops crystals in the glaze slurry into one that is more durable has come up.

Jackeeze Matte 04 - not for functional work

Gerstley Borate 35

Nepheline Syenite 5

EPK 5

Silica  42

Lithium Carb 8

total 95

edit: I'm adding the last 2 posts in the above link to the original thread this convo was posted on, it's a bit messy but somewhere to start.

 

 

@Bill Kielb, it's good of you to work on this for Grace. Just an idea but you might want to supply the lithia from spodumene rather than lithium carb to reduce the crystal formation problem she was having as spodumene isn't nearly as soluble as lithium carb. Chemistry is very close to your 2 recipes above.

Your recipe 1 could then be: GB 42.4   Nep Sy 9.9  Spodumene  47.7 total 100  

Your recipe 2 could then be: GB 40.9  Talc 8.4  Silica 1.2  Epk 25.2  Spodumene 24.3 total 100   (The LOI is lower on this than your version of it but it's still very high, I would be concerned with offgassing.)

Also, I feel we have gone off track from the original post and the title of this thread, I'm going to start a new one in the Chemistry section titles Jackeeze Matt Alterations.

 

 

Bill Kiel

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Yes, spodumene better but I committed to trying to stick mostly with the chems she has in stock. We will make a spodumene version at some point I suspect, it will take a bit of thought, or maybe not - you did it! The LOI at this point is an efficiency thing and may or may not be an off gas concern. Epk, Gerstley, silica, and talc, pretty simple. Not a whole bunch to this but we will see if she likes a recipe that is a true matte or if the underfired thing is the winner.

Three  goals at this point, get some clay in this, get this on the map and keep the sodium low while using her stock chems.

oh almost forgot, want to leave her some matte adjustability by way of sliding silica up and down. 

Edited by Min
added 2 posts

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@Bill Kielb, I'm curious why you want to get more clay in the original recipe? There is so much GB in the recipe it will work to suspend the recipe just fine. Also, I'm assuming you will have to calcine part of the  EPK in your preliminary recipes? Combine the GB plus the large amounts of EPK and the slurries will be thick and very gelled within a few hours. I suspect you will need to use Darvan to have the glazes at a good consistency and maintain a specific gravity in the 1.4 - 1.5 (ballpark) range. 

Good point about using what your have,    @Grace london, do you have spodumene or petalite in your glaze lab?

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Incredibly generous, the thought and attention you have put into this.

I have a very limited glaze lab, but I could order some Spodumene and Talc  in the next week or two. If you think it will work? I'm not making major amounts here, in fact a 500mls of each only. Keen to experiment. 
Actually microwaved a jar of my glaze today and saw those crystals melt immediately then added a little bentonite and it made it more brush-able all right...

 

 

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The original recipe that you sent me on Glazy included 1g or CMC. I am assuming that was to improve brushability as well.

Making your glaze right now and making it into a little video for members here about glaze tuning. Hope all goes well though, never know. Spodumene would be better but let’s see if this works for you then min has already converted to spodumene.

 

not the best picture ......but

BCDB669A-5BE2-4A92-A231-0308F589FB46.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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7 hours ago, Min said:

@Bill Kielb, I'm curious why you want to get more clay in the original recipe? There is so much GB in the recipe it will work to suspend the recipe just fine. Also, I'm assuming you will have to calcine part of the  EPK in your preliminary recipes? Combine the GB plus the large amounts of EPK and the slurries will be thick and very gelled within a few hours. I suspect you will need to use Darvan to have the glazes at a good consistency and maintain a specific gravity in the 1.4 - 1.5 (ballpark) range. 

Good point about using what your have,    @Grace london, do you have spodumene or petalite in your glaze lab?

Original recipe only had 5% clay. Like to see at least 10% for suspension. No calcining right  now. Sorry was busy making so now time to edit this to make sense. Yes final glaze will be decent and solid. For now I would like to get this on a tile and make sure she is relatively interested. Then standardize it so it mixes easily etc..... looking at her site and pictures I think this is very doable for her, but you never know till you try.

Edited by Bill Kielb

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Amazing that you're doing this. 

Can't thank you enough for helping me out.

I couldn't find CMC in London- Is AMACO Gum Solution the same thing?

What a beautiful studio! I will send you a photo of my dungeon tomorrow : )

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Alright almost a plan

  • make two glaze samples ( no dilly dallying, get this done)
  • make progressions of each to vary gloss level ( good proactive idea)
  • put them  in the test kiln,  pull them out tomorrow, get some really good pictures  of the surface and get them to Grace to see if she has interest.
  • if yes - solidify these recipes maybe spodumene, 10-25% clay, you name it ......... the works, these will be solid!

All a great plan until....... out of all the kilns available I need the little test kiln because this is an 04 lowfire glaze and quite frankly we don’t fire any. Of course one of our sculpture artists has the test kiln booked solid until Friday!

so wait till Friday afternoon we will,  and fire then.

Meanwhile the test tiles are stuck in shelf prison  along with other stuff waiting patiently on the rack. They are drying patiently of course.

Till Saturday then - go kiln waiting!

9885DB27-89CA-4D68-A3B0-F56B28D07F8C.jpeg.5d956289de8adbd045328605975292d2.jpeg47F9D815-B63D-4787-B913-57F47541A65C.thumb.jpeg.b84c1acc2f88fe09a7dd9c7a39ddffb6.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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On 1/22/2019 at 11:48 AM, Grace london said:

I have a very limited glaze lab, but I could order some Spodumene and Talc  in the next week or two. If you think it will work? I'm not making major amounts here, in fact a 500mls of each only. Keen to experiment. 
Actually microwaved a jar of my glaze today and saw those crystals melt immediately then added a little bentonite and it made it more brush-able all right...

 

If it's working fine this way and you are only using it for non-functional work then you could just continue with the recipe like it is. 500mls is such a small amount that sieving and microwaving the crystals shouldn't be much work at all. On the other hand if you want to use a version of this glaze for functional work Bill's reworked version might be a good option. I would hold off on ordering materials until he gets his final recipe down. It usually takes a test or two to fine tune a recipe. Adding CMC will help with brush-ability, you mix up a gum solution with water then use part of that for your water content in the glaze slurry.  

edit: to make up CMC gum solution add 2 tablespoons CMC gum to a gallon of warm water. Let it sit overnight, then mix it up with a hand blender. If you don't use it up quickly it will rot so you can add 1/8 teaspoon of copper carbonate to the mix to act as a preservative. (It's such a small amount of copper that it won't effect the final colour of the glaze) Use approx 1/3 of this solution for the water content in your glaze slurry. Since you are using such small amounts you might want to cut this recipe in half.

Edited by Min
added CMC bit

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Yes, don’t buy anything. This will take a few tests and you may not like the final outcome or how it performs with your colors or it may be great but you may take a year learning it with test tiles of your own or any number of things. The goal for me is to give you a reasonable option that solves your problem with potential hardpanning, lithium crystal growth and if possible a more durable formulation. Remember no guarantees you will like it.

of course the upside potential is it will be better and you will use it for years while becoming a little more interested in glaze and possibly give you a path to expand and diversify your art.

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Just an update for @Grace london

finally fired, couple pictures for you, not bad. Hang tight and we will do a few more adjustments and get this in good order.

here is a little video of the mixing party for your enjoyment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo5hhmciim8vdw3/Mix Them Up2.mp4?dl=0

 

7E1BCDFB-721E-44FB-9A2C-8FEED24FDFDF.jpeg

E0AE2D91-EA26-4DCC-A4EF-1AE3F659DC8C.jpeg

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This looks very promising Bill. I enjoyed the video too, again you have such a fantastic studio. I'm interested to see you recipe once completed. I should note, I apply 3 layers to get a good thick coating. 

Thanks for this,

Best,

G

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@Grace london

Just an update Finally finished a studio glaze adjustment for artist use and review. Have been dealing with snow then subzero weather and of course no test tiles left and to top it off some minor kiln repairs (burned terminations and bad relay) to the test kiln where I am firing your 04 tiles. Tomorrow -18F (-28C) temperatures during the day so maybe, just maybe I will make it to the studio to mix the latest round of trials.

We will get to it, just some patience

70E657FA-55E5-4F32-9081-DF0694D480F9.jpeg

3A4CABE8-180C-4053-850E-D5B3B166CC2B.jpeg

B3E4BF8F-8F5E-4A57-BBAC-3DA1EDF2A5D9.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:03 AM, Grace london said:

And there I was complaining about 2c in London. Keep warm! Love the updates : )

@Grace london

Done! - Almost,

Finishing this with the spodumene recipe because it is far better and allows us to drop our clay. Well we just pulled these out and made an attempt to get some pictures. Three coats painted pretty much acts like two coat dipped.  So on to the pictures:

  • 1) Recipe
  • 2) 5% Zircopax dipped twice, three second dips
  • 3) 3% Copper carb two dips
  • 4) 3% Copper carb brushed three coats

So this in my opinion seems very workable and hopefully the matte that you are seeking. Mattes are a level of gloss so this is tough to judge. The mixed glaze is a bit thixotropic but mixes very well when shaken. It does not appear to settle readily and responds well to brush strokes.

So within a week or so we will test if this settles or has any storage issues, create some better test tiles and get some decent pictures along with stronger color additions and finalize what we think this will be. I will also have to find out where you source your spodumene and possibly change this slightly based on the chemistry of what you can get.

I think this is on a good path (Been wrong before though) and I tried to match the texture and slight gloss I see in your pictures. As always - no guarantees and you may prefer a different texture or may experiment with it and prefer your old recipe - No worries.

For now - enjoy!

2019-02-01 (1).png

20190201_200655.jpg

20190201_200814.jpg

20190201_200853.jpg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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This is looking very promising Bill.

The white/zirco has a similar matt but I add 10% zirconium ox.  in and it's very white. For green I also add 10% titanium ox. and 4% copper ox. The test will be to see how well they sit together, layering etc..  Much to explore with this.

I'll wait for further results.

I'm over the moon you have taken such care and consideration into this.  

Thank you,

G

 

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So far you glaze looks pretty good.

I Will make some  tomorrow while the original batch sits undisturbed for a week. The new batch will include some of your colorants and we will make some quality test tiles with real painted glazes applied.

The individual colored batches will be stored along with the original for a week and we will see how they stay afloat. My early guess, you will be able to premix your colors and keep them individually without too much trouble.

hopefully all goes smoothly!

 

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@Grace london

Well the glaze sat undisturbed for a week with night time studio temperatures down to about 63 F (17C). It held up well and now to finish your samples and get them into the forever booked test kiln!

Here is a Video we call Mix it up

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ao3QDaQ-UsLEi-Yq9foWSZ8cW4h7nA

In the event this does not play - it mixed well - no significant separation

We will be done soon

added: final samples back in test kiln waiting que! Just a few more days and we can turn this over to Grace

 

AC3F21B1-91F9-405B-9F9A-80568EB74F57.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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Alright, through sleet,  snow, -27f,  broken kilns, no test tiles and who knows what else. The durable chemistry glaze is ready for Grace so we will see how it performs. No allusions, she may not like it, or it still needs to be color tested and tested for crazing with her claybody but it was fun and a nice project for those working on their glaze skills.

also provided an opportunity to make a very basic video in a glaze series here: 

thanks Grace! Hope all is well

2C09A71F-D1DD-446E-8947-EB6AB031BC04.jpeg.73b429ca2f20a342b699ded6d0f31d24.jpeg

6AABE49C-824E-4AA7-A5C1-81447162C1CD.jpeg

72FA0EE0-EA2F-4636-A337-033365104474.jpeg

FA1CCDE4-6C58-457D-9B6A-12CA1FF1299F.jpeg

Edited by Bill Kielb

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Thanks for this info Bill. I am going to try this as soon as I can.  Very interesting to see how unstable my glaze is, appreciate you keeping the materials similar and firing temp. I'm using all kinds of clay, and they all have been OK with my glaze.

Will keep you posted,

And I will be watching all your videos, very clear and helpful!!

Kind regards, and keep up the good work!

G

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