Metallic lustres

[vivk]

Hi all

I have found very little on metallic lustre firing on google and even on this forum.Can anyone help me with lustre firings, techniques etc. I had a disappointing firing results this week- it was my local red earthenware and I applied the glaze too thin, resulting in lots of patches of red earthenware showing through. (fired to cone 03).I was wondering if I could refire the pieces with overglazes and lustres to cover up those areas. Anyone tried this successfully.I would so appreciate your input.

[winstonzeddmore]

I’m not an expert on lustres, but have used them, following the directions on the bottle.  I think 03 is way too hot!  I apply gold lustre as an OVERglaze.  So  after the piece has been glazed and fired to vitrification,  I apply the lustre and fire to ^018 - ^020.  I don’t know if you applied the lustre too thin, but I think it may have burned off at the higher heat.  I’d suggest doing some test tiles just as you would any other work - bisque a dry tile, glaze, fire, apply lustre and re-fire to 018.  You’ll learn how much to apply, how thick it needs to be, without wasting a lot of the expensive lustre or ruining your work.

I hope someone else out there can add more...  Good luck!

[Mark C.]

You are better off reglazing and retiring then trying lusters to cover bare areas.

Refiring with more glaze is also a gamble but its better than lusters

Luster are super this and fire to cone 017 and 018

Lusters burn off at any hight temps.

Lusters work better on glazed surfaces and you said you have bare or thin spots .

[neilestrick]

Lusters are also super toxic. Wear gloves, a mask rated for fumes, eye protection, and do it all in a well ventilated area.

[vivk]

15 hours ago, winstonzeddmore said:

I’m not an expert on lustres, but have used them, following the directions on the bottle.  I think 03 is way too hot!  I apply gold lustre as an OVERglaze.  So  after the piece has been glazed and fired to vitrification,  I apply the lustre and fire to ^018 - ^020.  I don’t know if you applied the lustre too thin, but I think it may have burned off at the higher heat.  I’d suggest doing some test tiles just as you would any other work - bisque a dry tile, glaze, fire, apply lustre and re-fire to 018.  You’ll learn how much to apply, how thick it needs to be, without wasting a lot of the expensive lustre or ruining your work.

I hope someone else out there can add more...  Good luck!

Hi- sorry for the misunderstanding- no I did not put lustre on the first firing- just ordinary earthenware gloss glazes. I want to put the lustres over this

 

[vivk]

14 hours ago, Mark C. said:

You are better off reglazing and retiring then trying lusters to cover bare areas.

Refiring with more glaze is also a gamble but its better than lusters

Luster are super this and fire to cone 017 and 018

Lusters burn off at any hight temps.

Lusters work better on glazed surfaces and you said you have bare or thin spots .

thanks for your input guys-appreciate it.

[JohnnyK]

I agree with Mark about the reglazing and refiring being a hit and miss thing with no guarantees, but I would also guess that you are using ^06 glazes and firing them to ^03. That could also be where part of your problem is, along with your thought that you put the glaze on too thin. Are you dipping or brushing your glazes? Can you provide some photos?

JohnnyK

[vivk]

Hi JohnnyK.

The glaze I used in this case was a Gerstley Borate glaze (we get GB in South Africa) which I got at ICAN membership page

https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/ceramic-recipes/low-fire/clear-glaze-base-warm-yellow/

But I left out the rutile which is in that recipe.

I had used a white engobe slip recipe on my leatherhard jar (I used a recipe from ICAN section) before I bisqued the jar at cone 04. (1040 degree C)

That came out nice and white, so I thought the base glaze would work well over the white bisque.

Disaster!

The white engobe disappeared taking the pic and writing with it!

[Rae Reich]

Sorry you are disappointed with this result.  You can learn that: your white slip will need more or thicker coats to be a solid white; that a single coat will reveal brush strokes which can be used decoratively; that your iron decorations are diffusing in the glaze; that you can use other techniques for emphasizing decoration such as scratching, waxing or just mixing the iron more densely.

Keep learning!

[vivk]

Thank you Rae. That is good advice. I tend not to be consistent. If something doesn't work first time round for me I simply abandon it and try something else - a new clay body or a new slip recipe before trying to perfect the old one. I should stick to one thing till I get it right. 

[Rae Reich]

If you can accept your unexpected, but not unattractive, glaze effect, you can go over the spice names with gold lustre, for example, fired to ^018. There are also low fire enamels (all colors) that come in tubes like oil paints which fire to ^018. 

Always plan your re-fires to be at progressively lower temps.

As MarkC says, lustres applied to matte surfaces will be matte and have diminished iridescence. 

[vivk]

Thanks Rae. I was thinking exactly that until I found out what gold lustre costs!! Eeeek! Some time ago I experimented with gold transference acrylic paint I had. Fired it to cone 018 et voila! It worked!  It also did not wash off. The surface I applied it to was quite rough though. I thought I might try the silver and bronze metallic acrylic paints I have to see what happens. Ever the child I am. 

[Rae Reich]

That's pretty interesting that you could fire acrylic to ^018. Worth some tests, and less costly. Let us see your results!

note: a little lustre goes a long way 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

1 hour ago, Rae Reich said:

That's pretty interesting that you could fire acrylic to ^018.

Rae, 

Several years back I conducted some experiments using acrylic paints (mostly artist paints and white and black house paints) as a source of color in cone 10 reduction firing.  A few semesters ago I repeated part of that experimental protocol on fused glass work.  If the pigments in the acrylic paint are based on metal such as copper, iron, chrome, cobalt, etc. the residue after the organic medium burn off the residue will contribute to some color.  The intensity of the color will depend on the pigment and its loading in the medium, and the specific metal specie that remains in the surface layer of the fired object. Many of the common artist acrylic pigments are now all organic species and will burn off.  The ingredients in the paints are listed on the container, often in pigment jargon of pigment numbers.  There are several websites that have decoder rings to translate from pigment code numbers to specific chemical identities.  No, I do not have urls. After the experiments I only now use cobalt and black iron acrylic paints in my ceramic work, and then only as an accent effect on raw clay surfaces.  

Without the specifics of the pigments, just try a bit of acrylic, or other painting medium on a test piece and see what happens.  The worst that can happen is that you become addicted to the technique. 

LT

[Rae Reich]

Thanks, @Magnolia Mud Research! I always appreciate your experimenting and sharing. 

Is here an advantage in application? I'm thinking that the application is different on raw clay because of the medium? Water-based colorants absorb and diffuse, acrylic medium sits on the surface? Wonder if an acrylic matte medium with Mason Stains in it would have advantages. 

[vivk]

1 hour ago, Rae Reich said:

Thanks, @Magnolia Mud Research! I always appreciate your experimenting and sharing. 

Is here an advantage in application? I'm thinking that the application is different on raw clay because of the medium? Water-based colorants absorb and diffuse, acrylic medium sits on the surface? Wonder if an acrylic matte medium with Mason Stains in it would have advantages. 

Thanks Rae. That is what I was going to ask as well. We also get acrylic paint pigments here n liquid form which are used to colour wall paints. I might try experimenting with those - I have a turquoise sample which I presume may have some copper in it to provide the green? Could be interesting. It is pretty concentrated - a small 50 ml bottle of pigment can colour a whole litre of white acrylic paint. 

 

[neilestrick]

Burning acrylic paints releases toxic fumes. Even if you're not breathing them directly, you're releasing them into the environment.

[Rae Reich]

28 minutes ago, neilestrick said:

Burning acrylic paints releases toxic fumes. Even if you're not breathing them directly, you're releasing them into the environment.

Isn't this true of lustres and china paints as well?

[Mark C.]

1 hour ago, Rae Reich said:

Isn't this true of lustres and china paints as well?

yes

[vivk]

14 hours ago, neilestrick said:

Burning acrylic paints releases toxic fumes. Even if you're not breathing them directly, you're releasing them into the environment.

I would think that a lot of glazes contain toxic materials as well. And the amount of paint I intend using would probably be only 20 ml or so. 

[Magnolia Mud Research]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:09 AM, neilestrick said:

Burning acrylic paints releases toxic fumes. Even if you're not breathing them directly, you're releasing them into the environment. 

Acrylic paint is a water emulsion of poly-acrylates which contains only elements carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.  Clean combustion of the acrylate produces carbon dioxide and water.  Use same good sense as you would with using paper clay, wax, CMC, glaze resists, etc.  As my grand pappy used to say, “always stand up wind of the fire”.

[neilestrick]

1 hour ago, Magnolia Mud Research said:

Acrylic paint is a water emulsion of poly-acrylates which contains only elements carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.  Clean combustion of the acrylate produces carbon dioxide and water.  Use same good sense as you would with using paper clay, wax, CMC, glaze resists, etc.  As my grand pappy used to say, “always stand up wind of the fire”.

 

Interesting. Everything I read said there were a lot more toxic things in there. You're burning plastic.

[liambesaw]

1 hour ago, neilestrick said:

Interesting. Everything I read said there were a lot more toxic things in there. You're burning plastic.

Acrylic acid:

C₃H₄O₂

Now that's not the only thing in acrylic paint, but acrylic paints are nontoxic for the most part.  If you think acrylic smoke is bad, you should try wood smoke! Oh man!

[lgusten]

This is quite interesting.  Wonder if powdered pigment mixed in slip would work?  Some have the same names as what you can buy for glaze additives, but there are a lot more pigments.   

[Rae Reich]

51 minutes ago, lgusten said:

This is quite interesting.  Wonder if powdered pigment mixed in slip would work?  Some have the same names as what you can buy for glaze additives, but there are a lot more pigments.   

Try it!