Jump to content

are these engobes ?


clay lover

Recommended Posts

Are Mayco Stroke and Coat and Duncan Concepts engobes?  The bottles say they can fire from ^04 to ^10 , are true to color and will fire out shiny, like a glaze, but don't run either under or over glazes.  

also, if I have a recipe that has EPK, mason stains and a frit, is that an engobe and will it behave like these commercial products?   I am confused.  Thanks for any and all advice /comments.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

try our newly attached glossary for a definition of engobe.  and the other things you are not sure of.

stroke and coat says it is a glaze.  the bottles usually have a name on them.   maybe someone sells engobes but i have never heard of them being sold commercially.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a link to the glossary: 

https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/glossary/

Also I have an assortment of Duncan concepts and I've used the Mayco stroke n' coats, I can say the Duncans are extremely reliable and have a satin finish at ^06 and a shiny finish at ^6, that's about all I've fired them to. True colors especially over white clays but pretty predictable and bright over red/dark clays also. Their main drawback I assume is price for those little bottles, fine for jewelry or painting designs but you can't dip pots in them.

I tried the mayco for some purely art pieces over raw clay, it did acceptably well but only fired to a velvet finish at ^06. Overall Duncan is more consistent for most uses IMO. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sputty said:

Not such a bad idea! I'm all for collaborative working - it certainly shouldn't be beyond the wit of a collective drawn from forum members to develop an inclusive, detailed, referenced glossary over time. A continual work in progress, with entries commonly agreed.

I'm away for a week from today, possibly without interweb connectivity - but I expect to see the job finished when I return... <_<

I'll get right on that. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

lee, the laguna ad for moroccan sand calls it a glaze.

sputty, i agree that the term engobe is not well defined.  i remember being laughed at when someone asked what it was and i said it was a slip that enrobed a pot to change its color. 

even though i cannot really define a "glaze" i know that slip is clay and even with 20 coats on a piece of clay, the whole thing is still only clay. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also have tried to pin down a few people in authority (college ceramics teachers, supply store staff) on what exactly an engobe is and ended up in those verbal exchanges where I make guesses and they act evasive. TY Sputty for the useful definition. 

I've had the same experience with the word "Guache" e.g. opaque watercolor essentially, I think. It's funny because engobe sounds a lot like it serves the same deceptively simple purpose of taking the place of a decorative application of color normally considered transparent, just in a totally different medium. Convergent confusion . 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both a slip and an engobe can change the surface texture and colour of the clay to which it’s applied to. An engobe is similar to a slip but is made with less clay content than a slip. Typically slips are formulated to be similar to a claybody in chemistry (or the clay body itself is used to make a slip). Since there is less clay in an engobe it is going to shrink less than a slip therefore can be used on leather-hard, dry greenware or bisque without shrinkage problems. Slips work best when applied as soon as possible to the still wet or damp clay pot so the slip and the pot shrink together.

Engobes have higher flux content than slips to help create a bond between the clay surface and the engobe whereas a slip bonds to the surface through the interface between the damp clay and the slip. Slips don't rely on additional fluxes to bond with the pot. Since there is more flux in an engobe than a slip the fired surface can be more vitreous than a slip . I think part of the confusion comes from the term "vitreous slip" which by definition it is an engobe and not a slip.

Underglazes can have a clay base or a frit base but with either they still have the properties of an engobe more than a slip. Others may have different definitions, this is my understanding of the terms.

Link to post
Share on other sites

and, so, because the definition in the posted glossary is inadequate, i suggest that min's explanation be added to the glossary for clarity.   anyone agree?

 

there are other definitions in the glossary that could be amended, hope we can do that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Min said:

Both a slip and an engobe can change the surface texture and colour of the clay to which it’s applied to. An engobe is similar to a slip but is made with less clay content than a slip. Typically slips are formulated to be similar to a claybody in chemistry (or the clay body itself is used to make a slip). Since there is less clay in an engobe it is going to shrink less than a slip therefore can be used on leather-hard, dry greenware or bisque without shrinkage problems. Slips work best when applied as soon as possible to the still wet or damp clay pot so the slip and the pot shrink together.

Engobes have higher flux content than slips to help create a bond between the clay surface and the engobe whereas a slip bonds to the surface through the interface between the damp clay and the slip. Slips don't rely on additional fluxes to bond with the pot. Since there is more flux in an engobe than a slip the fired surface can be more vitreous than a slip . I think part of the confusion comes from the term "vitreous slip" which by definition it is an engobe and not a slip.

Underglazes can have a clay base or a frit base but with either they still have the properties of an engobe more than a slip. Others may have different definitions, this is my understanding of the terms.

Thanks for the refresher, Min. Well said!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.