Adding slip and shellac to a thin-walled, bone-dry bowl?

[hantremmer]

I've got a bone dry bowl. Arctic white stoneware.  It has thin walls and has been sitting for about a month.   I also have a 'raven black' slip (description below).  Is it possible for me to paint the pot with the slip, then paint patterns with shellac and wipe the black slip away, revealing the clay underneath?  

I'm unsure if the bowl will take the slip and whether it's possible to wipe the excess away, so I'm left with a black pattern.  Ideas:

  These decorating slips, are suitable for use on both Earthernware and Stoneware bodies. When manufacturing our slips we believe in using high percentages of stain to give strong, vivid colours throughout the range. The slip can be applied to leather hard clay with brushes, sponges or slip trailers. After biscuit firing the pots should be glazed with a suitable transparent glaze which will further enhance the vibrant colours. Our sample is fired to 1060degC.The colours darken the higher you fire. Wide firing range - 1000-1300°C"

Is it possible for me to paint the pot with the slip, then paint patterns with shellac and wipe the black slip

[oldlady]

if you dampen the pot first, it should work.  BUT........ is the pot worth the trouble it will be to get it back to workable condition or so special to you that you do not want to "hurt" it?

to dampen it, a very quick dip into a large container of water will probably not hurt it.  that is, reallyfastdipinandout.  then set the bowl under plastic for a day or so.  if possible, put a small container of water under the plastic next to the bowl for a few days.

or, just make another one and do the slip when it is still wet enough to accept it.

[Callie Beller Diesel]

Hantremmer, if I recall correctly, you're on the right hand side of the Atlantic somewhere.  

Have a look at your slip. Does it have a consistency like acrylic or poster paint? If it's got gum or other binders in it to make it brushable (which is pretty common in North American purchased underglazes), it should stick reasonably well to dry ware, although it certainly is easier to apply to a more leather-hard stage of work. You might go through more slip if your pot is dry.

If your slip doesn't have gum, etc in it, then do what Oldlady said.

You have nothing to loose, and you might has well treat it as an experiment at this point. 

[neilestrick]

I think that you'll likely have problems getting it to go on smoothly, and problems getting it to stick well on the whole piece. You'll probably have sections that flake off. However, if you wet the pot a little and deflocculate the slip it should stick well. If you have access to a sprayer, spray on the deflocculated slip. It will definitely stick well then. I've done that a bunch. Whichever way you go, I would do very thin layers. If you want guaranteed success, use an underglaze for this one, and use your slip for future pots at the leather hard stage. Also, no need to mess with shellac. Wax resist works great, just make sure it's completely dry, use cold water, and rinse your sponge a lot. Too much clay built up on the sponge and it will abrade the wax.

[hantremmer]

Thanks for all the comments.   What does dampening the pot do at this stage?  I've seen videos of damp pots being glazed, but wouldn't any excess moisture make it harder for the slip to stick?

I've heard of deflocculating clay, but I've never done it.  A quick suggests it's adding a special material to help the slip flow smoothly.  Is that correct?  I don't have a deflocculant here.

I'll have a look at the slip to check its consistency (I'm in the UK).  My timeline has moved forward somewhat; I  thought I'd have until next week to try this , but since posting it seems like the pot might need to be ready for tomorrow.  I suspect I wouldn't have time to do this properly.

Might try to raw glaze it intstead.

 

[oldlady]

damp clay allows slip, which is also damp, stick.   putting wet slip onto a dry pot might just make it peel off immediately.  sounds like you need a lot more experience in just working with slip on a pot or six to know what you are doing.  think about every step you do and how it is affecting the pot and being affected by the pot.   notice what happens every step of the way.  that is called testing, what we keep telling new potters to do all the time.

make a bunch of bowls, that is an easy shape, and try slip at various stages just to see what happens.  those bowls are part of your education, not a finished product to use.

 

[hantremmer]

Thanks for the explanation.  I think I understand.   I do need to experiment more, though I'm hampered by not having a kiln.  The studio I use is very busy, so it can be a while between me handing a pot over for a glaze firing and getting it back.  Any testing cycle would be quite long.   In the meantime I'm taking photos and making notes of my pots before and after glazing, so I can see what happens.

[oldlady]

ah................ shared studios present their own problems.  are you able to talk to the person who loads and fires the kilns?  if you discuss your needs with him/her and offer to make small test items, you can try lots of things.  the things you make are tests so will be small to fit in the corners of the kilns.  if you make the same shape repeatedly and label each one with a number, you can keep records of what exactly you have done and your expectations.  

yes, it is a nuisance to write everything down but if you are interested in learning more each time you make something it is the only way.

bumbling along making the same simple item you have done over and over will not satisfy you in the long run.  the field is so large, the ocean, in effect, that you can only get your toes wet unless you learn to swim.

[Marcia Selsor]

I spray my slip on. then shellac it. In the piece below I sprayed the black slip onto the dried pot, then painted shellac and wiped off to reveal the trees, and cows. For the bisqued the pot  I added  stain to the glaze and for the peach and sky. 

Marcia

 

http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/gallery/image/2214-aircows2jpg/?browse=1

 

[hantremmer]

EDIT -

I didn't have time to use slip on the bone-dry bowl; I tried raw glazing it intead.  Three swishes of ultramarine.  No idea how it will turn out. 

Oldlady,

Thanks for the tips.  Firing isn't easy in London (nor cheap).  I'm trying a new place for a month or so, but they state they will only fire pieces made on the premises.  I will see if I can fit any little tests in, numbering the pots of course.

Marcia,

For some reason I don't have permission to see the picture.  However, your description intrigued me.  Coincidentally,   I dipped a pot in transparent glaze today and then used an atomiser to spray on a tenmoku-style glaze.  The pot is going into an electric kiln.   I've never tried this before.

[Sputty]

.

[Min]

@hantremmer and @Sputty, since Pres is off on vacation I'll jump in here. Marcia has the setting for the album that photo is in set to "private". @Marcia Selsor if you want this album to be public you click on Manage Album>Edit Album. Inside the next the screen is a button for “Everyone can see this album.” then turn that button on. 

[hantremmer]

Thanks Min.

[Marcia Selsor]

Thanks for the note, Min. I have been away from the forum while re-organizing my studio to maximize the efficiency of the heaters. 

I just went through ALL my albums and found three set on private. Who knows how that happened. I didn't know we could do that! Who would create an album and make it private(???) I have 4 pages of albums. I know I have posted the drawing of the heron on a raku tile using a litho crayon and the litho transfer technique posted  several years ago.. It was now in a private album. 

 So all my albums are public now. Sorry about that.I have no idea what happened to make them private.

Marcia

[Babs]

defloccutating a slip allows fir the same degree of fluidity of the slip but made by using much less water and so much less shrinkage when drying on pot. So if applying defloc. slip to an already dry pot, a greater degree of success

Darvan or sodium silicate used to defloc.

[Marcia Selsor]

On 1/3/2018 at 12:46 PM, Sputty said:

Me neither. Just throws up an error message: "Sorry, there is a problem. You do not have permission to view this content. Error code: 2G188/1"

I have changed the setting. I don't know when they got changed to private.

They are all public now.

 

[Guest]

On 1/3/2018 at 10:46 AM, Marcia Selsor said:

spray my slip on. then shellac it. In the piece below I sprayed the black slip onto the dried pot, then painted shellac and wiped off to reveal the trees, and cows. For the bisqued the pot  I added  stain to the glaze and for the peach and sky. 

Nice!

[hantremmer]

On 1/4/2018 at 9:53 PM, Marcia Selsor said:

I have changed the setting. I don't know when they got changed to private.

They are all public now.

 

Striking, but not at all what I expected.  When I think of spraying, I imagined a (purposefully) inconsistent application.