Mixing Pugmills

[anchorman]

We are looking at buying a new mixer for the studio where I work, and I was wondering about the relative merits of a bailey pugger with the longer barrel vs the peter pugger with the shorter auger and barrel.  We currently have two soldner mixers, and one of them is going with the professor who owns it, since he has retired.  The soldners work pretty good, but we still have to pug or wedge the clay after.  The mixing puggers look like a nice option to cut down on the work required to make and/or reclaim old clay.

Does anyone have preferences/arguments for or against a particular model?  We are looking mostly at the peter pugger VPM-60 and the PM-100 at this time.  I'm guessing the de-airing model is most convenient, but also need the ability to make a lot of clay fast, in order to keep students busy.  The one thing I'm not sure about regarding the various mixer puggers is how small a batch they can do.  the soldner mixers seem happiest when mix near or at their maximum capacity.  I'd have to get too big of a mixer pugger and find our that it's impossible to mix a 50lb batch with any sort of efficiency, though it's probably better to be able to make more clay faster to keep up with our needs.  still, it would be nice to be able to mix up small(er)  test batches, or for more advanced students to make smaller amounts of special clay bodies to suit their needs.

Thanks in advance for any input,
jon

[Mark C.]

jon are you working with porcelain or just stoneware clay-any low fire talc bodies?

 

I'm a petter pugger fan but need to know the answers before going further.I use the VPM30 myself

[anchorman]

Mostly stoneware.  If we were to make any porcelain, it would likely be pugged out quickly and not left there to cause the aluminum to pit.  We need to replace the big soldner sooner than later, and mostly do reclaim of wet slop and dry greenware at the moment.

My biggest concern is the throughput, i.e. how fast can one reasonably mix up 100-140 lbs of clay in the VPM-60 from fresh dry ingredients and from recycled clay.

[Mark C.]

I do not think there is a better machine out there for you as far as making fresh clay-They have been in the mixer/pug all in one business the longest-as thats all they make.I recommend their product over all others in terms of mixer/pugger combos.

I have been to the factory as well.

 

I love my Bailey electric slab roller and I feel Bailey is the best slab roller out there as he has made them the longest.

 

My VPM30 holds 85# but really pugs out about 55#-60#s as the rest holds in machine.The machine mixes very fast and pugs out fast. I would only consider the deairing unit . You mix all ingredients in the vacuums space as well as pug out with the vacuum on.

Just get the model that fits your output and remember that the machine will hold about 20# in it when empty. The short barrel just means less clay holding in machine-its a positive feature.The desiring is a another key feature you need.

It will reclaim or mix dry or both very well.

I strictly use porcelain and do not worry about a pitted surface-mine was bought used from a high school and they used it for a low fire body which had pitted it already.

Thats mu 2 cents

[dhPotter]

anchorman

 

I saw a VPM-25 at work. The chamber had to be full before it would mix any clay. Otherwise, the clay spins in the chamber.

[Mark C.]

In any machine you need to have enough material to get it to grab-in my VPM 30 thats about 50#s to make it output.It does not have to be full

[Mark C.]

anchorman

 

I saw a VPM-25 at work. The chamber had to be full before it would mix any clay. Otherwise, the clay spins in the chamber.

I think you mean a VPM 20 there is no 25.

[Mark C.]

I think the VPM 60 would be your perfect machine after looking at their web site. Forget the non deAiring 100.

[fergusonjeff]

I have started mixing clays in my small peter pugger (VPM-20) and usually make about a 35 pound batch at a time.  It is not quite as simple as just throwing in the powder and water and then making the clay.  If I had a mixer (like a solder) I would use it to mix and then send it through the pugger. 

 

The pug mill tends to need about 80-90% capacity for it to mix, otherwise it just spins a large ball.  The same pointless spinning can occur just from water additions.  It takes a while to figure out how to break the spinning and start mixing again.  The larger sized peter-puggers might be much more efficient for mixing clays from dry ingredients. 

 

Mark, have you used your larger pugger for mixing clays from dry ingredients?

[glazenerd]

Jon:

The reason Bailey has longer barrels, is to keep the front chamber air free. If you notice, the Peterpugger has the vacuum in the rear: which vacuums the entire chamber. Every time you add to the load, you break the seal and have to de- air. The Bailey vacuums the front end chamber only, which is separated by the rear chambers by a shredding screen. You can add more material to it, without breaking the vacuum seal.

 

The question really is: how do you plan to use it? If you are only plugging premade clay, the Bailey is more efficient. Bailey also has a different type of auger that pulls the clay forward or backward. If you are planning to mix your own clay from powder: both machines will do that job.

[Mark C.]

Jeff-I have not dry mixed yet only added dry to existing wet.

The Petter pugger mixes by spinning the Augar backwards which moves clay backwards-then when in pug mode it spins in the other direction pulling it forward.

there are no screens which is a blessing as you do not ever clean screens.

The clay held in the barrel in the Peter is already deaired so when the vacuum breaks when loading its not changing that mass much air wise.

[anchorman]

Jon:

The reason Bailey has longer barrels, is to keep the front chamber air free. If you notice, the Peterpugger has the vacuum in the rear: which vacuums the entire chamber. Every time you add to the load, you break the seal and have to de- air. The Bailey vacuums the front end chamber only, which is separated by the rear chambers by a shredding screen. You can add more material to it, without breaking the vacuum seal.

 

The question really is: how do you plan to use it? If you are only plugging premade clay, the Bailey is more efficient. Bailey also has a different type of auger that pulls the clay forward or backward. If you are planning to mix your own clay from powder: both machines will do that job.

we plan on using to reclaim wet and dry clay, and mix new clay from dry in batches.  the venco that we run currently is a PITA, given how easily the screens clog up, and how the vacuum port can quickly be blocked with clay.  The one advantage to the venco with it's screen is that it finds sponges, plastic, etc, that get into the reclaim.  but otherwise that type of pugger seems painfully slow to use, and having to fill the hopper and press it in one lump at a time is annoying.  we will be keeping the venco and our smaller soldner mixer, so will have all the options.

[Mark C.]

Anchorman if you like screens get the Baily-I recommend the PP but I hate screens

[No Longer Member]

It doesn't use a "screen" in the sense that you think. It has a stainless steel metal disk with holes drilled in it about 3/16" that the clay has to push through; (think meat grinder). I've used both a PP and Bailey (dual auger) in a professional capacity and I prefer a Bailey dual auger machine. Bailey's dual auger design is much better at de-airing as it de-airs AFTER the clay passed through the "screen" holes allowing a more thorough process. The "screen" doesn't need to be clean unless you mulch a bunch of tools and/or bisque that got thrown in by mistake (and it would have to be a lot!)

 

Single auger machines need to be loaded to about 85-90% to get them to work. The dual auger machines can pug a much smaller batch than it's full capacity. You also have to be more careful when adding water to a single auger machine as too much too fast and the batch will just spin.

 

The only thing I don't like about the Bailey is the that the longer barrel holds a lot of "old" clay that needs to be considered when pugging if swapping b/w high and low fire clays.

 

Both are good machines; one is a VW, the other a BMW.

[oldlady]

i have the bailey de-airing 400 model.  it is a  simple machine and works very well for me, i only use it occasionally but that means over several days with intervals of weeks or months between.  the screen described above is easily removable.  it has saved my machine from disaster when a large washer from the hand held extruder wound up against it.  the screen stopped the washer from getting into the barrel.  it was in the way but once i realized something was caught and looked, i found a chamois also stuck there.  good design.